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DrWatson

Cayman Islands Registry?

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The cat 1 check itself isnt that expensive. Its the NZ registration.....

Yes, it's the whole process, not just one aspect (ie the cat 1 check), but also the logistics and imbuggerance of doing it as BP points out.

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I agree, I wouldn't do any ocean sailing without being cat 1 equipped.

 

This is always the argument when it comes to safety. How can you have a problem with paying X amount of fees or jumping through X hoops? It's all for your safety!

 

Why is NZ the only major sailing country that does this? Especially as cat 1 doesn't last beyond exit, it's a pretty hefty departure tax for an NZ flag.

I note the question was't answered.

 

One of the any reasons that NZ has this system is we have a huge expanse of water that is difficult to weather predict conditions on leaving, and consequently many boats get in trouble. 

 

Cat 1 is a few hundred dollars, tiny compared to the value you get of an experienced set of eyes looking over your boat, and tiny compared to the value of safety gear you'll probably be buying anyway.

 

Yes it's the ship registration that costs the real money, but that doesn't seem much cheaper elsewhere for the hassle involved.

 

If you're a New Zealand citizen and want to go offshore and expect to get rescued if things go wrong, then the exit standard is Cat 1.

 

My personal view is if you're not prepared to do that, go in anything, but don't take a EPIRB or sat phone, and tell your family you're doing under your own risk, and won't expect a search if you don't show up at your destination...

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Tim. I object to the compulsory aspect. I have left nz without cat 1 but cheerfully used the prescription as a check list during preparation. And saved thousands by having the freedom to vary from it .

 

Yes we cover a lot of area. So do lots of others. We are not unique. I would still be interested in a real analysis of whether cat 1 boats give fewer calls for help than those not.

 

Your few hundred dollars is misleading. I figure by registering offshore I save 3 to 4 thousand dollars initially. Plus I can leave on short notice if required.

 

I'm quite happy to leave without radio etc. I've done that for years. Remember this safety net is not global so people who sail out of the net are quite used to not expecting rescue.

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Really Tim cos if you did that they would still search for you and everyone would say you should have at least had a Epirb and some communication equipment with an updated position daily because it would have made it so much easier and cheaper to search . Choosing to go without NZ Reg doesn’t,t necessarily make you a complete idiot.

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I note the question was't answered.

 

One of the any reasons that NZ has this system is we have a huge expanse of water that is difficult to weather predict conditions on leaving, and consequently many boats get in trouble.

 

Cat 1 is a few hundred dollars, tiny compared to the value you get of an experienced set of eyes looking over your boat, and tiny compared to the value of safety gear you'll probably be buying anyway.

 

Yes it's the ship registration that costs the real money, but that doesn't seem much cheaper elsewhere for the hassle involved.

 

If you're a New Zealand citizen and want to go offshore and expect to get rescued if things go wrong, then the exit standard is Cat 1.

 

My personal view is if you're not prepared to do that, go in anything, but don't take a EPIRB or sat phone, and tell your family you're doing under your own risk, and won't expect a search if you don't show up at your destination...

It's ok, I'll only have my foreign passport on me with my foreign flag, so that should be fine.... especially as this thread is about which registry to use for a French built boat with Swiss based owners with mixed EU NZ citizenship.

 

I'm sure cat 1 inspectors do a cracking job, if that's the question I didn't answer. I have no reason to doubt their professionalism but I also have no reason to consult them as I live in the EU.

 

Aren't the vast majority of vessels transiting NZ SAR areas foreign flagged and so not subject to cat 1 checks? What effect has the new regime had on the cost of SAR? Have incidents increased or decreased? Surely most incidents requiring assistance occur in inshore waters and it would be more logical to apply regulation there?

 

Also this thing with NZ having an exceptional SAR area doesn't really ring true. Most offshore SAR assets are in place anyway for military purposes and in fact most actual incident attendance is completed by foreign flagged merchant ships. Many other countries have similarly large SAR areas with significantly more traffic and incidents and don't have exit restrictions on pleasure craft.

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Tim. I object to the compulsory aspect.

I believe this is the crux of the matter.

For people with considerable offshore experience, sometimes considerably more than the inspector concerned, being told what to do goes against the grain.

I reiterate, talk to your local inspector. I’ve found them very reasonable and flexible (except in one case). If you don’t get on with one, try another. Then pick one for your inspection.

I think, in the case of BP, they are unlikely to insist on GZ curves, and the rules will be flexible.

When the rules are used to try to make things difficult, it’s because the inspector feels that something is wrong - the boat, it’s condition, equipment, or crew. For a boat like BP, and a skipper with well over 100,000 miles in all sorts of boats, it will be pretty easy. IMO.

Personally I don’t mind another set of experienced eyes looking over my boat....

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Cat 1 makes a lot of sense for racers but has some serious flaws and inconveniences for cruisers. I’m not sure why the powers that be don’t want to hear what these flaws are from guys that know what they are talking about and at least have a discussion to try and improve the system to benefit all concerned. It seems some fairly simple and insignificant tweaks could improve things enough to get more people on board.

 

The ‘shut up and put up because I know what’s best for you’ attitude is never going to be an easy sell.

 

Also makes you think when guys like Webb Chiles scoffs at the rediculous amount of safety gear that is expected to be carried these days.

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In days long gone common sense carried a lot of weight, many of the boats that left NZ wouldn't stand a chance under the current rules., and of course it ain't that common any more. Then, we didn't have a safety industry with a vested  interest in selling stuff. We didn't have a Coast Guard out there wanting to save us from ourselves. Advert: " how can we save you if we don't know where you are" to my mind sends the wrong message. By setting the as they are rules they take away personal responsibility.

No matter if you have an epirb, life raft, flares etc. doesn't mean that you will be rescued once you leave NZ's maritime rescue area. None of the Island states will come looking for you, (perhaps with the exception of New Caledonia) you are really on your own and you should, can, could, prepare yourself accordingly, your call.

I don't recall any recent rescues of yachts without cat 1, I do recall several of yachts that had Cat 1.

It would be good if NZ Yachting could put up some figures perhaps?

It reminds me of the fact that 33% + - of drivers killed in road accidents weren't wearing seat belts!  That means that the 66% that were wearing them didn't survive either.

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I’m not sure why the powers that be don’t want to hear what these flaws are from guys that know what they are talking about

Just to clarify I am not referring to myself here. I am referring to the guys and gals that have done substantial offshore miles/circumnavigations and consider Cat 1 to be flawed enough to look at alternatives.

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