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YNZ Race Regulations Cat1-Cat5; Anomalies and concerns


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So I decided to play nice, I've ordered $2000 worth of carbon for some pipe berths to be fitted permanently. And a brand new 6hp 4 stroke Suzuki with a high thrust prop. Overkill for a boat that weighs 600kg but it's the same engine for 4hp/5hp/6hp so why not, the next series of engines are way heavier.

Technically under the the rules I need neither but to save NZTYA from actually having to apply the rule they are charged with (the Sport Trailer Yacht Rule) I thought why not. The real reason is because I'm going to be launching at BBYC and the SSANZ series may start at Westhaven I'm going to need something that makes the trip easy.

So I inform NZTTYA and guess what. Under the rules the engine has to be 6.2 so I will not be approved with a 6hp.

Sadly this is where yachting has sunk too in NZ. Welcome to YNZ

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My concern is that your are replacing one set or arbitrary requirements with a new set of arbitrary requirements. And these ones are likely to have a number of unintended consequences (more so than th

Just a heads up, I won't be giving any direct answers to requests for change - I'm not a subject matter expert on some of this stuff. What I'll do is take your feedback, constructive criticism, sugges

Which is why to their credit SSANZ do their inspections on the water and they are visible and extensive. I'd go as far as saying the boats in a SSANZ race comply with the appropriate rules better than

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Yep, most young 88s for a start. I once ran the Waikato trailer yacht champs where I was provided a young 88 as a committe boat. Old days of windward start, windward finish. We stayed on station till the leading boat was on its way downwind for the last time and he beat us to the finish buoy.
 

I have used 2.5 Suzuki on an 1.7 tonne dragon for the last 3 years pushing in and out of all tides with no issues

if it was a keelboat or multihull I would not need an engine at all. I once sailed a night race to kawau anchored in mansion house, on and off the marina In Westhaven in sundreamer with no engine, it was away being serviced.

David barker never had an engine for years.

Obviously some feel .2 of a hp is a valid substitute for seamanship

 

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1 hour ago, Deep Purple said:

Yep, most young 88s for a start. I once ran the Waikato trailer yacht champs where I was provided a young 88 as a committe boat. Old days of windward start, windward finish. We stayed on station till the leading boat was on its way downwind for the last time and he beat us to the finish buoy.
 

I have used 2.5 Suzuki on an 1.7 tonne dragon for the last 3 years pushing in and out of all tides with no issues

if it was a keelboat or multihull I would not need an engine at all. I once sailed a night race to kawau anchored in mansion house, on and off the marina In Westhaven in sundreamer with no engine, it was away being serviced.

David barker never had an engine for years.

Obviously some feel .2 of a hp is a valid substitute for seamanship

 

aah Computer says no...

"You need to give evidence of new boat pushing against the tide in Whitianga harbour channel. Any engine that can do that is fit for purpose. 

I would suggest a large portion of boats would not pass the test."  Chariot

Strange the above is simply another subjective measure that can't complied with either, while it may practically demonstrate the appropriateness of the available thrust of the engine in a particular craft ( entering or leaving Bluff harbour is another good example...sometimes no amount of horsepower is enough).

Although this has been discussed elsewhere my boat has a 9.8hp outboard with HT prop in a custom well and is a registered YNZ keelboat. It meets all the YNZ requirements for speed in flatwater as per the formula but is quite poor when you might really need it  i.e a close lee shore in 40 knots as most boats will be.  Question is why was the boat on a lee shore in forty knots - poor seamanship right? was the right jib still hanked on ready to rumble for 40 knts when the mooring broke at three a.m  or the anchor dragged?

The TY rule is very prescriptive here and the formula will spit out a result that says DP needs 6.2 not 6hp. Question is where is that horsepower measured at the flywheel or at the shaft? Can this be calculated if available and is it more or less than the 'rated/advertised' hp. Can you 'hot up' the outboard to meet the rule etc and produce a cert? I know PITA. Not easy.

Especially, at this time the sport whether it be TY or sports trailer yacht or sportboat or keelboat needs to be administered to do everything possible to grow participation. Not discourage it. It is analogous to society at present where everyone/ every institution seems to be finding a reason why you can't or shouldn't do something rather than to help/ or assist participants to achieve it. In fact in many instances the 'computer says no'  is the dominant paradigm. When as a society did we move to this fear based, over-regulated, computer says no state where we are collectively inhibited, prevented from pursuing what we want to do. What happened to individual responsibility? How as a population/nation have we allowed it to occur?

Wouldn't it be odd standing up in a coroner's hearing outlining that the .2hp was a key contributing factor? Moreover who would argue that the .2hp was significant? Think about it. hydrodynamic and aero drag in most instances would render the additional .2hp utterly useless. 

DP curious , who are you dealing with at NZTYA?

 

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I'll pm you. I'm just heading out to the airfield to get some av-gas. Does anyone here have a dyno for outboards?

 

Failing that... https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorcycle-Mini-Nitrous-Oxide-Kit-Pocketbike-Gas-Bike-50-250-cc-w-5-NOS-Bottles-/331958844152?ef_id=Cj0KCQjw-_j1BRDkARIsAJcfmTEaetehI5ykHQdnKi_355PU2_tBmCmQZ_nsBRNalQNM7KdPPtMUcYIaAhTcEALw_wcB:G:s

 

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What does Point 2 mean? They will only consider changes if the rest of the world has already agreed on it? No concept of local rules to match NZ conditions/situations?

Anyone wishing to submit feedback is asked to use the following format:

  1. Proposed rule change with reference to the number.
  2. Recognised  (SOLAS, World Sailing, ABS, ISO, CE, Bureau Veritas) technical substantiation for that proposed rule change.
  3. Details of the organisation represented declaring any potential conflicts of interest.
  4. Please email angus@yachtingnz.org.nz
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3 hours ago, Adrianp said:

What does Point 2 mean? They will only consider changes if the rest of the world has already agreed on it? No concept of local rules to match NZ conditions/situations?

Anyone wishing to submit feedback is asked to use the following format:

  1. Proposed rule change with reference to the number.
  2. Recognised  (SOLAS, World Sailing, ABS, ISO, CE, Bureau Veritas) technical substantiation for that proposed rule change.
  3. Details of the organisation represented declaring any potential conflicts of interest.
  4. Please email angus@yachtingnz.org.nz

Looks to me like you have to be a subject matter expert rather than joe punter to propose any rule change. Funny -  I thought the rules were suppose to serve the community using them. 

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