Common Sense Prevails - Liferafts Dropped

[Fish 0]

Yachting NZ drops the requirement for liferaft or Dinghy for the Coastal Classic.

 

A big congratulations for actually applying common sense to regulations, and taking the initiative to increase participation.

 

In previous threads, no-one has been able to give an example of liferafts used in anger between Auckland and BoI, while in other threads there is significant disquiet about the increasing cost to buy and service liferafts, of which have now effectively become a disposable item.

 

I'm sure elements of the marine industry will be bitching about a loss of a lucrative revenue stream (liferaft sales and service), but this decision is truely an example of logic over-riding regulations.

 

Full credit for taking steps to increase participation, something very important for the continuation of our sport.

 

https://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/news/coastal-classic-omit-life-raft-requirement?fbclid=IwAR0A8Pq292FqMwHP7USaVOgfyRE_hVe1dTYLLVTvABL22BXWa5JvQi_aAdQ

[Young Entertainer 59]

good call,  it was always a bit of a bug bear.  Happy to have all the other Cat3 parts on board and always considered the safety inspections a good way to make sure the boat was up to scratch for the summer cruising season.

[Romany 162]

I quite agree about the life raft part, but I would have thought a dinghy should be a must have.

[Y88 5241 25]

All good except those who brought a brand new raft for the coastal last year thinking it would be good for a few years to come, and now find its worthless as who needs a cat3 raft now!

 

Personally I’m against the idea of removing the raft requirements, whilst it’s never been used it, if a boat was to sink and a live lost explaining the rationale behind removing the requirement may be hard as ‘to get more entries’ probably won’t cut it

[Ed 143]

Nothing to say you can't carry a raft, it's just not complusary any more.

[ex Elly 197]

“The Notice of Race and Sailing Instructions will make it clear that crew on boats without a life raft or dinghy shall wear lifejackets at all times unless the person in charge explicitly gives permission for them not to be worn” Greer continues.

 

“We hope and expect that this change will enable an additional ten boats this year, or even more”.

 

https://www.coastalclassic.co.nz/single-post/2019/04/10/2019-entries-open-no-life-rafts-required

[Adrianp 119]

All good except those who brought a brand new raft for the coastal last year thinking it would be good for a few years to come, and now find its worthless as who needs a cat3 raft now!

 

Personally I’m against the idea of removing the raft requirements, whilst it’s never been used it, if a boat was to sink and a live lost explaining the rationale behind removing the requirement may be hard as ‘to get more entries’ probably won’t cut it

 

This was a NZ Multihull Yacht Club lead request to Yachting NZ to run our race (Coastal Classic) as a "Cat3 minus Liferaft" Race. We've been working on this behind the scenes for a while, resulting in the NZMYC putting a proposal to the YNZ Keelboat and Offshore Committee (KORC) who agreed with the approach. 

 

Its a combination of many small advances in technology improving safety and the unique location of the race, has lead to this option being acceptable.

 

We hope it will get many more boats onto the startline and we believe it actually makes it a safer race overall.   

[Fish 0]

All good except those who brought a brand new raft for the coastal last year thinking it would be good for a few years to come, and now find its worthless as who needs a cat3 raft now!

 

Personally I’m against the idea of removing the raft requirements, whilst it’s never been used it, if a boat was to sink and a live lost explaining the rationale behind removing the requirement may be hard as ‘to get more entries’ probably won’t cut it

Personally, I think Cat 3 without a raft is safer than Cat 4 plus a raft.

There are a few middle distance races around now that are Cat 4 plus a raft. (SSANZ mainly, but that initiative is also to encourage entries without the need for a CAT 3 inspection)

 

I think peoples psychological dependence on rafts comes from back in the 50's and 60's when people used to drift around an ocean for weeks on end, often up to 150 days, in liferafts. Obviously those were the days that didn't have any means of communication, let alone fast boats (i.e. Coastguard / Police launch / Navy) or rescue helicopters. The wide range of reliably, affordable electronic communications changes the paradigm completely.

 

Another big difference between then and now is the prevalence of carvel planked boats. Spring a plank and you'd go down very fast. There are practically no carvel planked boats now, esp not racing, so boats just don't sink like they used to.

[Ed 143]

Personally, I think Cat 3 without a raft is safer than Cat 4 plus a raft.

There are a few middle distance races around now that are Cat 4 plus a raft. (SSANZ mainly, but that initiative is also to encourage entries without the need for a CAT 3 inspection)

 

I think peoples psychological dependence on rafts comes from back in the 50's and 60's when people used to drift around an ocean for weeks on end, often up to 150 days, in liferafts. Obviously those were the days that didn't have any means of communication, let alone fast boats (i.e. Coastguard / Police launch / Navy) or rescue helicopters. The wide range of reliably, affordable electronic communications changes the paradigm completely.

 

Another big difference between then and now is the prevalence of carvel planked boats. Spring a plank and you'd go down very fast. There are practically no carvel planked boats now, esp not racing, so boats just don't sink like they used to.

Just for clarity, the SSANZ triple series races dont need a raft, they are cat 4+, but the plus is not a raft. The route 66 was an example of cat4+ a liferaft

[Fish 0]

Just for clarity, the SSANZ triple series races dont need a raft, they are cat 4+, but the plus is not a raft. The route 66 was an example of cat4+ a liferaft

Thanks for the clarification. 

Fairly sure the Tripple used to have the odd race for certain divisions that were cat 4 + a raft, but a few years ago now, when it was the Simrad series. But I could be wrong, The route 66 is a good example of what I was referring to with Cat 4 plus a raft verse Cat 3 without a raft.

[armchairadmiral 411]

The liferaft rule blew us out of coastal racing years ago. It was bloody ridiculous for some of those and unnecessary for the others....for all the reasons now given for disbanding it. For some ,with rafts,it became a status symbol and for the rest an insurmountable financial hurdle when we were struggling with all the other expense. So we quit. And its too late to get us back as we do other sport now and just club racing occasionally. Well done to all those "Safety Moguls" who played their part in the ever diminishing entry lists. Plenty of safety industry input into creating those rules ? They're all now dead or gone or both.We were just one loss but one after the other soon added up.

[Ex Machina 365]

Hope it revives the small boat numbers in the coastal like the piedies and trailer yachts .

[khayyam 68]

Hope it revives the small boat numbers in the coastal like the piedies and trailer yachts .

 

would be nice to see. didn't seem like there were hardly any smaller boats in the most recent edition.

[erice 732]

Hope it revives the small boat numbers in the coastal like the piedies and trailer yachts .

 

might need to extend the finish window for trailer yachts..

[Ex Machina 365]

might need to extend the finish window for trailer yachts..

Na 30 hours is plenty of time if there’s breeze

[DrWatson 374]

Na 30 hours is plenty of time if there’s breeze

But if it drops out, and it often does before the small boats get close, you get 30 small boats dnf. It’s kind of a FU to the folk with smaller boats - “yeah sure you can enter the race, but if it’s less than 15knt and At all forward of the beam don’t expect to finish...

 

If your upwind speed is 5.5 knots and it’s a dead beat all the way, you have to sail 1.414 times the distance assuming 90 degree tacks and no leeway or set. So that’s near on 170 miles of sailing meaning you need to average 5.65knt to finish in 30h.

If it gets light at any point, you’re screwed.

 

I know everyone wants to go to the party, but at least let the smaller boats self report a finish time, with some kind of evidence. Eg a selfie with the duke in the background sent to race hq or something.

[Adrianp 119]

 

I know everyone wants to go to the party, but at least let the smaller boats self report a finish time, with some kind of evidence. Eg a selfie with the duke in the background sent to race hq or something.

We have been doing that for a couple of years!

 

From the NOR:

 

5.0 FINISH TIME 

 

5.1 The time limit: 1400 hrs, 26th October 2019. 

 

5.2 Any yacht not reaching the finishing line by this time will be entitled to radio in their position and will be awarded a finish place. Any yacht finishing in this manner will not be eligible for handicap prizes but will be eligible for separate prizes if finishing in this manner.

[ScottiE 174]

yeh - youy can't win no matter what you do.  Just went back through our NoR's and SI's for the last few years post the bank's sponsorship.

2012:  if you didn't finish prior to 1200hrs you were scored DNF (IIRC I posted some later times that year)

2013: if you didn't finish prior to 1400hrs you were scored DNF 

2014: If you didn't finish prior to 1400hrs you were entitled to radio in your position and be awarded a finish place etc etc etc per this year's NoR.

We have people who then have to bust their arse in a short space of time to finalise results prior to prizegiving at 1900hrs 

We've now been able to work with YNZ to justify the removal of one of the single most costly items required under the safety regulations.  

 

The weather pattern that the Dr. Watson describes is pretty unusual.  The wind is not going to "dead maggot" you round the course and at worst something like a minimum of 15% of the course will be at reach or better (rather than tight reach or dead maggot). It is a yacht race in October when the SW trades typical of the shoulder seasons are, well, typical.  We could allow the smaller boats 40hrs (or any other number you want Dr. W) but that would mean starting them at midnight the night before. 

 

Yes occaisonally some yachts might struggle to make the 30hr cut off but to not race because of that risk would be like saying don't watch a football match - the team you support might loose!

[Ex Machina 365]

But if it drops out, and it often does before the small boats get close, you get 30 small boats dnf. It’s kind of a FU to the folk with smaller boats - “yeah sure you can enter the race, but if it’s less than 15knt and At all forward of the beam don’t expect to finish...

 

If your upwind speed is 5.5 knots and it’s a dead beat all the way, you have to sail 1.414 times the distance assuming 90 degree tacks and no leeway or set. So that’s near on 170 miles of sailing meaning you need to average 5.65knt to finish in 30h.

If it gets light at any point, you’re screwed.

 

I know everyone wants to go to the party, but at least let the smaller boats self report a finish time, with some kind of evidence. Eg a selfie with the duke in the background sent to race hq or something.

We Were the last boat to pull out I think ? After 26.5 hours , 6.5 of them spent sitting at piercy island we were over it by then which is kind of my point about the time limit , more of an endurance issue from a small boat sailor perspective .

[Ex Machina 365]

yeh - youy can't win no matter what you do. Just went back through our NoR's and SI's for the last few years post the bank's sponsorship.

2012: if you didn't finish prior to 1200hrs you were scored DNF (IIRC I posted some later times that year)

2013: if you didn't finish prior to 1400hrs you were scored DNF

2014: If you didn't finish prior to 1400hrs you were entitled to radio in your position and be awarded a finish place etc etc etc per this year's NoR.

We have people who then have to bust their arse in a short space of time to finalise results prior to prizegiving at 1900hrs

We've now been able to work with YNZ to justify the removal of one of the single most costly items required under the safety regulations.

 

The weather pattern that the Dr. Watson describes is pretty unusual. The wind is not going to "dead maggot" you round the course and at worst something like a minimum of 15% of the course will be at reach or better (rather than tight reach or dead maggot). It is a yacht race in October when the SW trades typical of the shoulder seasons are, well, typical. We could allow the smaller boats 40hrs (or any other number you want Dr. W) but that would mean starting them at midnight the night before.

 

Yes occaisonally some yachts might struggle to make the 30hr cut off but to not race because of that risk would be like saying don't watch a football match - the team you support might loose!

Nicely said Scottie

 

We hope for that SWer next year and it’s that hope of a SW screamer that will keep bringing us back to do the race . Hey I have a suggestion about the bow stickers , in the N hemisphere many regattas are changing to sponsor flags instead of hull stickers .

 

It’s hard not to notice in the Pre-start the already loose and flappy stickers and there must be a fair whack that fall off going up the coast too and end up advertising PIC on the beach .

 

A small flag flown from the caps or back stay would be better I reckon and they can be used again . One per boat would be possibly cheaper than two massive stickers per boat especially if they are used more than once .