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Mechanical Failure


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Be curious to know what the mechanical failure is. 

A bulkhead or rudder would make me a tad uncomfortable, but engine or inability to charge? hmmm.

 

Solo, and no windvane. Inability to charge could get boring very fast. No autopilot. No sleep, etc etc.

 

Trying to think of a way to not make disparaging comments about other peoples taste in boats, but I wouldn't have thought the hull shape and characteristics of a Bavaira 42 would be ideal for a voyage from NZ to Papeete...

And that is not a criticism of European production boats, there are some very good models by the big volume producers. More a comment on the beam and hull shape of the B 42 for a lot of trans-ocean crash-bash (and to be honest, strength and build quality). How much of a voyage that long, and that destination, would end up on the wind?

Still, each to their own, he is out there doing something, and I am walking distance from my nice warm fire.

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We did that passage last year ( to Australs rather than direct to Papeete)and although normally you would expect some off the wind with the westerlies for the first part then hopefully slightly eased sheets as you turn north with unsettled conditions which seem to be prevalent these days in May our journey was 2300nm on one board - ranging from slightly eased sheets to hard on the wind with wind strength generally in the low 20 ‘s and max 37 and sea conditions from 2 m up to 4 m which made it a pretty testing trip . Our steering bearings and autohelm gears seized so we ended up doing 400nm on emergency tiller - would be interesting to hear more of what went wrong to tempt him to get lifted off.

It is one of the harder passages

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Be curious to know what the mechanical failure is. 

A bulkhead or rudder would make me a tad uncomfortable, but engine or inability to charge? hmmm.

 

Solo, and no windvane. Inability to charge could get boring very fast. No autopilot. No sleep, etc etc.

 

Trying to think of a way to not make disparaging comments about other peoples taste in boats, but I wouldn't have thought the hull shape and characteristics of a Bavaira 42 would be ideal for a voyage from NZ to Papeete...

And that is not a criticism of European production boats, there are some very good models by the big volume producers. More a comment on the beam and hull shape of the B 42 for a lot of trans-ocean crash-bash (and to be honest, strength and build quality). How much of a voyage that long, and that destination, would end up on the wind?

Still, each to their own, he is out there doing something, and I am walking distance from my nice warm fire.

It's a long passage, might simply come down to wanting to get off the boat before a smaller problem becomes a bigger one. I've done that passage and it's a boat breaker, we never got off the wind really the whole way.  It was a daily job just keeping on top of chafe and wear and tear.  We also had issues with rudder bearings and also leaks.  

 

The B42 is not too bad a boat, anyhow i'd rather be in that than something wooden, Geez the amount of whales we saw was incredible and we never hit one of them which was amazing.  

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Ah I will take wooden anytime over that boat, if his rudder stock or tube is gone he has a good reason to leap off, otherwise.... but that name was asking for it.

A friend left at the same time from  Auckland to the same destination

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There are wooden boats, and there are wooden boats.

Much the same as there are European production boats, and there are European production boats.

 

For wooden boats, the appropriateness comes from the construction method, not the fact that it is wood. Triple diagonal kauri with a glass skin - top shelf, I'd have no problem with that. But then we own a double diagonal kauri with glass skin :-)

Also considering the strength of the build as well (scantlings?). i.e. designed for trans-ocean, and not sheltered waters sailing, to resist flexing, twisting and cyclic loading.

 

Carvel planked - no chance. Anything with a single layer of wood, sealed with caulking or what ever, the risk is too great. Spring one plank, and you're in Davy Jones locker before you know it. Not to mention all the issues with the topsides drying out whilst in port, and leaking and needing to take up again as soon as you start healing over and getting them wet...

 

What was the name of that big wooden American boat that disappeared mid Tasman one winter several years back? Sailed out of Whangarei, heading for Oz. Had 8 or 9 on-board I think. There was extensive searches and they couldn't find a trace. The parents of a younger lady who was on board had a hard time coming to terms with it, criticized MRCC a lot and paid for a lot of private searching. That boat was carvel planked, very old (maybe 100 years or something, I'm just going by memory here). Most likely sprung a plank and went down faster than they could activate an EPIRB.

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Yes to be clear I was referring to multi skin glassed kiwi boats , and fish is right there is a big difference between a standard Bavaria and a Halberg Rassy just to pick one example.

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There are wooden boats, and there are wooden boats.

Much the same as there are European production boats, and there are European production boats.

 

For wooden boats, the appropriateness comes from the construction method, not the fact that it is wood. Triple diagonal kauri with a glass skin - top shelf, I'd have no problem with that. But then we own a double diagonal kauri with glass skin :-)

Also considering the strength of the build as well (scantlings?). i.e. designed for trans-ocean, and not sheltered waters sailing, to resist flexing, twisting and cyclic loading.

 

Carvel planked - no chance. Anything with a single layer of wood, sealed with caulking or what ever, the risk is too great. Spring one plank, and you're in Davy Jones locker before you know it. Not to mention all the issues with the topsides drying out whilst in port, and leaking and needing to take up again as soon as you start healing over and getting them wet...

 

What was the name of that big wooden American boat that disappeared mid Tasman one winter several years back? Sailed out of Whangarei, heading for Oz. Had 8 or 9 on-board I think. There was extensive searches and they couldn't find a trace. The parents of a younger lady who was on board had a hard time coming to terms with it, criticized MRCC a lot and paid for a lot of private searching. That boat was carvel planked, very old (maybe 100 years or something, I'm just going by memory here). Most likely sprung a plank and went down faster than they could activate an EPIRB.

 

This boat will be carvel planked when finished, would you go offshore in it ? look at those scantlings they are absolutely  massive !!

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Rd699cDmIw

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Uninformed is a bit strong. I would have gone with being a realist.

And I am sorry, when discussing boat construction types, it would seem someone will be offended sooner or later.

 

I'll accept that carvel constructed boats have a reputation for being very solid, and massively overbuilt - Frank's video above is an excellent example of that. I'll also acknowledge the comments around being the oldest and most reliable ship building method - for the time. Much like Thames sailing barges and Ferguson tractors being old and reliable, alas they have been superceded by better options, the same as carvel construction.

 

Would I go to sea in one? There are endless accounts and stories of crew having to man the pumps 24/7 to stem leaks in these boats, of the topsides opening up in dry weather, of the boats leaking on launching or re-launching until things snug up again. There is also an aspect around their sale price (low for the size of yacht), and the need for fastidious maintenance to prevent major issues (which, to be fair is the same for other types of construction such as steel and in some cases, alloy).

 

Interestingly, there are no accounts of boats springing a plank and going down in seconds. Possibly because no one ever gets to tell that tail. There are cases of boats that vanished without a trace though...

 

But to bring the thread back around to what caused me to make disparaging comments about carvel boats in the first place, Southern Man said he'd prefer to go to sea in a Bavaria 42 than a wooden boat. I clarified that I'd rate a double or triple diagonal wood with glass skin over the Bavaria, but I would agree with Southern Man if we were talking about a carvel boat. Being solo (the guy who got rescued), he's got no one to man the pumps while he's having a nap...

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The problem with the Nina was not the fact it was carvel but that it had been glassed over. The glass cannot handle all the movement going on.

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nothing wrong with carvel as long as the ribs are close together,old carvel has ribs every 200/250mm the trick is not to caulk to tight as it swell it can crack the planks, A german in the 60s left Germany in a glass boat and it disintegrated mid pacific due to the glass technique being relatively new couldnt handle the heat of the tropics.

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I wasn't aware I'd damned an entire method of construction?!

I did say I wouldn't go to sea in a carvel boat.

That is based on my impression of the current stock of carvel boats around the place at the moment, which fairly much matches exactly what you say below. 

 

And to be fair to carvel boats, probably the best example I can think of is Suhaili. First boat to make it around the world non-stop with a single crew. In the same Golden Globe race were a range of different examples of construction. Other than Joshua (steel), all the others failed. A couple of early GRP types (effectively trailer yachts), a plywood tri (complete disaster), and I can't remember the others.

But even then, RKJ had to go over the side mid Atlantic to do some maintenance / caulk up some leaks. Solid, heavy and dependable boats, if you know how to maintain them just right. 

But given the choice of modern boats, there are still several other options I'd take before carvel. More so, if I were doing a solo trip from NZ to Papeete.

I would happily go to sea in a well found carvel boat but there are plenty of old dungers with degraded screws, poor quality seams and questionable caulking that would fall apart on a heavy trip to barrier. However most of them are ancient as carvel has pretty much died out in NZ  so its unlikely to be a problem we will ever have. Up the Wade, Milford creek and assorted inlets all over the country there are still plenty of carvel boats floating and doing just fine, plus its always entertaining seeing the owners faces as they take up after a year on the hard :)

 

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The problem with the Nina was not the fact it was carvel but that it had been glassed over. The glass cannot handle all the movement going on.

That is bat-sh*t crazy.

I hadn't heard that before.

 

They even say not to use two pot paint on carvel, cause it can't handle the movement. It'll crack. 

To glass it is just asking for trouble (sadly, in hindsight). 

Was it still caulked if it was glassed? I don't actually understand how that would work, or why anyone would do that, unless there was something different about this boats construction?

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From memory the Nina was sheathed.

Double planked Mexican mahogany 1 3/4" on white oak frames and David had replaced the deck.

One thing that stuck out for me in the report was the new Cummins engine had issues that prevented the supplier from providing a warranty.

 

A new Cummins 150 engine was fitted into the Nina at Opua during March/April. On completion of engine fit out sea trials were carried out. The company who supplied the new engine would not sign off on the “new engine” warranty, as the engine had been fitted by the owner and there were issues with shaft alignment. This resulted in abnormal engine vibration and the need to limit engine revolutions to below the designed maximum. It was also observed that there was significant ingress of water through the stern gland while the engine was running. This concerned the engine supplier but the owner was apparently not concerned. 

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I looked at her just prior to the new engine going in and there was no sign of glass sheathing, you could see the planks and if I can find my tall ships pics from that year (a good breezy one) they may even show in them, I was worried that her shearline looked severely hogged which is a worrying sign in a boat of that type.

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