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First time buyer advice


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Hi everyone - we're looking for advice as first time buyers. Welcome any and all feedback. 

We're in our early 30s and have just started getting into sailing doing a couple of courses here in Auckland and in Opua, and have been getting out as much as possible with friends on their boats. Our long term goal is to get proficient enough that we can upgrade and sail around the pacific, but for now we're looking for a safe and comfortable boat for us to learn in and spend time cruising around NZ. 

We've checked out a few boats, and everyone has their view on the best models, so keen to hear from the community as to whether there are any models we should be on the look out for, or any we should avoid. We're currently most interested in a couple of Lotus 9.2s (or 9.5), but are worried they may be too slow and we'd be motoring everywhere (is that a legitimate concern?). Others that have taken our eye are the Farr 920 or 1020, Noelex 30, and the Townson 30. 

Thanks very much  

 

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Welcome aboard. Of that list the 1020 is the best, but also the most expensive.  Get a survey on any vessel you are serious about.

I know of a 1020 on the market at 35k, and another at 80k. The 80k one is better value...

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The lotuses you mention are good boats. They're not as quick as a 1020, but I wouldn't think you'd feel they were so slow you'd have to motor everywhere? A 950 is basically a 920 with an open transom and a bigger rig, so they're better, but also tend to come with a price premium. 

As IT says, often the cheapest boat to buy isn't the cheapest in the long term. Try and find one that's been well maintained. Buying one that needs work and then paying to do the work tends to add up very quickly. Easy to spend 10k if it needs a couple of sails, 15-20k if it needs an engine replacement, nav instruments/autohelms/refrigeration/rigging/canvas work etc can all cost thousands each. Pretty easy to buy a 30k boat and spend 30k on it if you're not careful. Best way to avoid that is to check all those things yourself and then get a good surveyor in as well.

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The Lotus 9.2 isn't a race horse but they are not a pig that has to be motored everywhere. Well balanced and easy to sail and very good cruiser. They 9.5 is similar but a little more tender. Have owned a 9.2 for 10 years and have no regrets. 

 

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I would say the critical factor if you are worried about sailing speed and the need to motor, isn't the design of boat, but the state of the sails. More so, for beginners, the state of the sails is critical. Old sails are baggy, they have no shape. When the wind blows you heel over and get over-powered. You then reef to control the power, but are then under powered. You get both scared from fighting to control the boat, and you are slow, so you get pissed off, and motor. Or you get sick of it and take up golf... 

If you have new sails, when the wind blows, you accelerate.... you sail fast, it is easy to control the power when the wind gets up, you can flatten the sail (less healing force, better pointing), and you can twist them out (spill power at the top). You are happy, you get the boat in the groove, and soon you are entering club races, or sailing further, in a wider range of wind conditions...

There are some boats that are notoriously under powered. Chico 30's I think? Almost anything made to fit an IOR rule. Most other designs, just get good sails...

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Thanks for all the feedback! It's all sounding good re the lotuses, and the advice on the quality of sails is great. There do seem to be a few 9.2s on the market which haven't moved for a few months. Any idea why that would be? 

There's also variations on the market with glassed wooden (Kauri or cedar) hull vs GRP. Any insight as to what options would be best?

Unfortunately think the 1020s are out of our price range, it was top of mind as the one for 35k sparked our interest...

Thanks again for the useful thoughts.  

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When you say new to sailing but go out on friends yacht,what is it?could you comfortably be able to motor in to a marina or pick up a mooring??these I feel is a starting place,being confident to get on /off mooring marina. Depending on experience you say Lotus maybe too slow? Hmm remember along with speed things happen quickly and on a fully crewed vessel you may get the feeling this easy. Before rushing in decided what you want it for and where and whats it going to cost too moor,then work out basic maintenance costs.Buying a vessel is the cheap part.

Once you have decide on a vessel then you can look at prices,do not let the mid to top range put you off as everything is negotiable.Never know what ones position is and how quickly they need to sale. 

As pointed out by "FISH" sails most important then what motor vessel is powered by age and hours and are parts available.

Wish I took my own advice years ago.

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My experience In the last few days (helping friends) buying boats is that there are some spectacular deals to be done. Even in the 6 months before Covid the used boat market was looking pretty stagnant but I think in the last few days it has literally died. The number of people out there prepared to buy a boat right now in these uncertain times is next to nothing. Any vendor who gets an offer today (however crazy) will be tempted because they might not get an offer for another 12-18 months. So forget the price tag - find something you like, try offering 50% of asking, and be prepared to own it quickly.

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From what I have seen and heard, a well looked after and well spec'd boat can get multiple offers in the first week of listing. Until you own a boat, you would not believe the time it takes to keep it in good order. Any that have sat for more than maybe 2 months, have probably been let go, i.e. there is a pile of work to be done to get them into good order.

That said, Aleana's comments re the current situation with the virus etc, if you actually want to part with cash right now, I'd expect you could cut a very good deal.

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I think the market in several major sectors has died. Again only today, a friend with a highly desirable ‘hot’ property in one of Auckland’s most sought after inner city suburbs had precisely zero viewings at the open home. Whereas a few weeks ago similar nearby properties were selling at auction 25% over CV. It’s happening.

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1 hour ago, Priscilla II said:

Factor in $650 a month for minimum length marina fees that are constantly rising.

Gulf Harbour seems to be a bit cheaper with $500 pm for a 12 meter berth becoming increasingly normal.

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9 hours ago, Priscilla II said:

Factor in $650 a month for minimum length marina fees that are constantly rising.

But only if you want to keep it in a marina.

There are options where you can pay that for a year to park it in locations not exposed to the weather (storms) that are about as secure as a marina, for the size boat the OP is talking about.

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Yes plenty of choice in the 30 foot bracket. As above lotus, carpenter, farrs are good options but also lidgard 29s, young 88s, whiting 29s are all good boats too. Also seen a few glass townson 34s go reasonably cheap in the last few months, cav 32s and Chico 30s an option as well although as noted above about the Chico's some would say they're a little under powered.

Some of the above are slightly quicker than the lotus, but probably mostly a bit less roomy inside. I'd look at any of the above and try to find one in the best condition possible.

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The best advice above is to buy a well maintained and well equipped boat. 

If you compare the actual costs of a boat that needs sails, motor, rigging (standing/running), winches, canvas, and costs $ 15K 

to a boat that needs none of that and costs $ 35K - the latter is nearly always less expensive once you add it all up. 

Well over half of all "project" boats are never completed. 

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