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Halyard size

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Just pondering, after losing 2 halyards down the mast and replacing several others during the RNI2020.

Is it viable to replace all my 8mm dyneema double braid with 6mm? Maybe with an exoticish cover instead of polyester. My thinking comes about after we couldn't mouse a replacement at sea and it was a pain in the arse at Mangonui (thanks to the Edwards clan for sorting it in the end there). Then in Wellington the 8mm end got stuck at the spreader junction and again it was more fantastic riggers sorting it out again (Hurricane rigging).

The fault lies in the sheeve boxes and they will be fixed eventually but in the meantime I have an issue of not much room inside spar (carbon job) and would like to add an extra 3/4 spin halyard for peels etc eventually.

Opinions please.....boat Ross 930

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What caused the failures?

Why go smaller? To make them easier to run when you need to swap any over or to save weight or you don't like the colour or ....... ?

You could use 3mm if you like, there are some options that small with more than enough strength and bugger all creep, BUT how do you intend to handle small ropes at 3am with cold wet hands, do you intend to change your jammers to suit the small ropes and how about redundancy when plodding over distance, have you thought about those aspects?

No need for any exotic covers unless you have a problem that dictates the need for one.

I installed a 6mm spinnaker halyard but it is the masthead one so can't be used if there is any weather as the mast can't handle it. All the halyards I can use when there is any weather all were remade in 8mm. Also when that rig was reassembled a mouse line was left in it intentionally for the exact reason you found off the west coast.

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Alright KM, 

What caused failures? All the halyard boxes had sharp edges, not rounded off in any manner. The main halyard also too tight a radius, would suit 6mm more.

Why go smaller? Both sets of riggers had issues getting the halyards past spreader connection point. Also more space inside to add another 3/4 halyard.

Clutches etc? I have some 4-8mm spinlocks, should do the job. Two would need to be replaced.

Why 6mm? Used 6mm for cunni, 3x reefs and outhaul. No issues with harken st winches or in the basic english clamcleats as well. Reef lines a wee bit fluffy but nothing major after 1200miles or so.

Agree with mouse line, just added it to my to do list!

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Agree with KM - I'm in the midst of replacing most of my running rigging also. All my clutches are either 6-12 or 8-14mm. New reefing lines are 8mm Poly outer/UHMWPE core which will be stripped and coverless where required.  The 8mm has good hand which I think will work well when I'm cold, tired and getting smashed. Do they need to be this diameter for overall strength - absolutely not. 

Main halyard is 8mm, Jib halyard is 8mm, Fractional kite 8mm, Masthead kite is 8mm, Topper is 8mm (can double as 2nd jib halyard). Outhaul tail is 8mm = in boom two to one is 7mm coverless  16 Carrier UHMWPE.

Vang, prod control, cunningham, keel lift,  in-haulers etc are all 6mm. 

Obviously going to 6mm throughout would reduce overall weight but an important thing to note is the rope design/construction. The number of carriers in the cover makes a massive difference IMHO to the overall feel, longevity and suitability of the subject rope. If I could afford to change all the clutches/ cleats to the right parameters I think 6mm max and less for others would work throughout the boat.

 

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Worth considering a “check” line on a MH halyard to turn it into a 3/4, I.e a 3mm line that feeds down the in the 3/4 halyard box with a low friction ring that the MH halyard feeds through. Pull it on and a MH halyard turns into a 3/4.

On a SR26 everything was 6mm, apart from the mainsheet and jib sheet. No complaints.

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13 minutes ago, DaveNoy said:

Worth considering a “check” line on a MH halyard to turn it into a 3/4, I.e a 3mm line that feeds down the in the 3/4 halyard box with a low friction ring that the MH halyard feeds through. Pull it on and a MH halyard turns into a 3/4.

On a SR26 everything was 6mm, apart from the mainsheet and jib sheet. No complaints.

Yeah much preferable than having 3 halyards, masthead and 2 fractional. Make one do both

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46 minutes ago, DaveNoy said:

Worth considering a “check” line on a MH halyard to turn it into a 3/4, I.e a 3mm line that feeds down the in the 3/4 halyard box with a low friction ring that the MH halyard feeds through. Pull it on and a MH halyard turns into a 3/4.

On a SR26 everything was 6mm, apart from the mainsheet and jib sheet. No complaints.

Cool idea, will pinch this thankyou.

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4 hours ago, Start Me Up said:

Alright KM, 

What caused failures? All the halyard boxes had sharp edges, not rounded off in any manner. The main halyard also too tight a radius, would suit 6mm more.

Why go smaller? Both sets of riggers had issues getting the halyards past spreader connection point. Also more space inside to add another 3/4 halyard.

Clutches etc? I have some 4-8mm spinlocks, should do the job. Two would need to be replaced.

Why 6mm? Used 6mm for cunni, 3x reefs and outhaul. No issues with harken st winches or in the basic english clamcleats as well. Reef lines a wee bit fluffy but nothing major after 1200miles or so.

Agree with mouse line, just added it to my to do list!

Three things pop out as strange in that post.

1 - When I did my time as a sparmaker one of the first things bashed into me was 'chafe' and 'sharp edges', do whatever you need to to make sure you never see any. So to get chafe from a exit is crazy, that should not be able to happen.

2 - No room inside your rig??? I have the scrawny small section made of pasta version yet it has 5 halyards and a topper in it, plus wiring conduit all with room to spare. You have a carbon mast that is physically bigger, why you can't fit at least what I can is just weird. Are you sure you don't have something a little off going on inside it?

3 - Your mast is new so to think someone made a carbon rig and made it in a manner that does not work for the materials in use at the time it was made is beyond my ability to comprehend. My mast was built by Adam, during a 'time out' after a sh*t fight with Eve, so long before UHMwPE's were being made yet is perfectly fine for those fancy materials.

Smaller the line the bigger the reliance on good jammers so with a name you used I would very strongly suggest that if you do go 6mm you bulk up the line where the jammer grabs it, assuming you run with jammers of that brand, it is one the accountants of rope sellers do like, and like a lot.

I do have to throw this out there into the pondering pot - The lines that failed, were they ropes built to a price or ones built for performance?  I'm sure you catch my drift with that.

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Right.. 

1/ chafe should not happen, agreed. 2 masts were built at same time and my crew tracked down the other, guess what same problem..

2/ room inside the rig, bugged if I know. Suspect when I remove the rig and remove spreaders we'll have a better idea ( in the meantime i want to go sailing with limited reduction to sailing time and budget)

3/ agreed with mast, maybe sell all clutches and replace with decent clamcleats for those lines that may need instant release 

The two lines that parted, one was Italian, the other Kiwi. The rest that had major wear were all Kiwi. Hurricane rigging put a chafe guard on the 3/4 and main halyard (Italian&Kiwi) in Wellington. I trimmed both in Napier due to wear (definately slowed things down though).

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