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Rehabilitated

Government giving significants funding to our Coastguard and surf Lifesavers.

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9 hours ago, Rehabilitated said:

The Northern region also in addition to their latest asset another vessel even larger say 20 meters with a greater distant range operational and based near north cape for rescues with a range off 500 nms and return with another plane in association with the vessel rescue operations . Would be far cheaper than the Orion's, quicker to assist distressed vessels, damaged and abandon yachts in trouble than at present relying search and rescue directing shipping to the scene.

The same is required for the southern South island region based either at Stewart island or Dunedin. Government funding would bring this together sooner rather than later.

How say you.

The 20 m vessel sounds a lot like the Navy's existing inshore patrol craft. The last rescue north of North Cape was when Django (the J boat) lost their rudder returning from a Fiji race (or maybe a Numea one). The navy scrambled an offshore patrol craft from Devonport who completed the rescue. They got up there in about 5 min (figuratively). Must have really put hte hammer down.

As for air support, the country is spending moon beams on new Poisedon Boeing jets for sub hunting and fitting in with our coalition partners. Our Airforce has bugger all to do accept go look for lost sailors. Generally fishermen from Kirabati (they loose one maybe once a month, it just doesn't get publicised, the P3's fly over my house when heading north). There is no point a volunteer organisation staffed by weekend warriors (no offence) should get mixed up in the space of trained military personnel. As for the cost of running those Poisedons, it is beyond me why the Airforce don't use smaller civilian aircraft for basic search functions. Easy to fit with high spec radar and cameras. The Aussies are using Bombardier jets, as per your story of the MoB's off Mooloolaba. I had an understanding there were twin turbo props being used as well, especially for their coast watch. Shitloads cheaper to run and maintain, and still cover all the same capabilities. A couple of the Airforce air trainers wouldn't be too bad for Hauraki Gulf air support. The costs are so minimal you wouldn't even need a grand budget announcement.

But these are all functions of the military (that we pay for anyway), not a volunteer organisation. As the Big T said, it wasn't that long ago that volunteer skippers were using their own launches for CG patrol. They were reimbursed financially, but there wasn't this large number of specialist rescue boats on hand. There is big scope creep here. There are so many CG units in Auckland, they often race each other to jobs. I had an engine cooling system failure once and asked for CG help to get back up the river and onto my mooring, having sailed up to the bar. CG literally got their so fast I didn't have time to put the fenders out after phoning them. And CG's PR machine spin the rescue numbers. Best demonstrated by the number of rescues they said they carried out during L4. Dig a bit deeper and they were fulfilling the role of the police launch doing patient transfers. 99% of their jobs are no petrol or flat battery. There are very few legit rescues in comparison to the press releases.

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You r entitled to your opinion which I disagree with. Stating that the cast guard personal r weekend warriors is a joke. Read their article re their latest asset with the latest equipment and the training they give and the qualifications they have to have to b on that particular asset, and their other assets

As 4 your explanation re the planes you confirm the S&R new planes r to big and r really for greater distances from NZ which I have no qualms re that area. To equipe smaller planes for the air force is not warranted when other military assets r begging for possession in military support operations. Much better for our CG to be equiped so as they can attend to their role particularly on the west coast of NZ, when the S&R are engaged on the greater distant areas in the large zone under their responsibilities or when required In the Pacific Island territories.

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10 hours ago, Rehabilitated said:

The Northern region also in addition to their latest asset another vessel even larger say 20 meters with a greater distant range operational and based near north cape for rescues with a range off 500 nms and return with another plane in association with the vessel rescue operations . Would be far cheaper than the Orion's, quicker to assist distressed vessels, damaged and abandon yachts in trouble than at present relying search and rescue directing shipping to the scene.

The same is required for the southern South island region based either at Stewart island or Dunedin. Government funding would bring this together sooner rather than later.

How say you.

Rehab, you know the government is us right... "we the people"... where do you think all the money is coming from? Given what is going on at present with Covid 19 direct spend and the distinct Quantitative easing etc why do I keep hearing don't worry its okay "the government will pay for it" or  a council spokespeople saying " yes we can achieve a reduction in rates as we can readily loan fund it". All these idiots are future eaters... my kids economic well being. For example ,Wellington City Council appears to be in serious financial pain with Christchurch running a close second despite all the hype and rhetoric.  I am so sick of hearing so many people outlining how they are going to spend or should spend "our" money whether it be tax, rates, holiday allocations, resource consent admin fees, development contributions, compulsory licensing etc when they have no idea in most instances where the money actually comes from - people and companies work and produce things for a sale price greater than the cost of inputs. Anything else is arguably unproductive in the strictest sense and is a cost on society. How can the PM in all seriousness right now be considering more public holidays? 

 

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1 hour ago, Fish said:

 The Aussies are using Bombardier jets, as per your story of the MoB's off Mooloolaba. I had an understanding there were twin turbo props being used as well, especially for their coast watch. Shitloads cheaper to run and maintain, and still cover all the same capabilities. A couple of the Airforce air trainers wouldn't be too bad for Hauraki Gulf air support. The costs are so minimal you wouldn't even need a grand budget announcement.

This service in Australia used to be known as Coastwatch, then managed by Customs, and is now part of their Australian Border Force Maritime Border Command, a joint military/civil organisation. The aerial surveillance role is contracted out, currently to Surveillance Australia Pty Ltd (National Jet/Cobham PLC). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveillance_Australia

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11 hours ago, Rehabilitated said:

The Northern region also in addition to their latest asset another vessel even larger say 20 meters with a greater distant range operational and based near north cape for rescues with a range off 500 nms and return with another plane in association with the vessel rescue operations . Would be far cheaper than the Orion's, quicker to assist distressed vessels, damaged and abandon yachts in trouble than at present relying search and rescue directing shipping to the scene.

The same is required for the southern South island region based either at Stewart island or Dunedin. Government funding would bring this together sooner rather than later.

How say you.

Rehab, do you understand the founding principle of NZ's Coastguards? It was as a "self help" volunteer organisation for pleasure boaties. Fish's reference to "weekend warriors" (or the tag that got hung on a reserves mate of mine "cut lunch commandoes") is not unfair, this is exactly what their frontline guys and girls are and they are proud of it. The crews have training equivalent to SCTW 95, the skippers have a Coastguard Qualification recognised by MNZ of a standard somewhere between and SRL and SCO.

Your idea seems to be to transform CG from its current form to a quasi military/government type organisation but without showing any actual need. This is mission creep gone overboard.

Let me pose a couple of questions to you

1. have you heard of Deodar III, Lady Elizabeth IV and Hawk - all existing boats around the 18m size? So your "fleet" already exists (altho without the range), but they are not going to sit around Nth Cape and Stewart Is waiting to be called upon maybe once/twice a year

2. How many maritime fatalities can you name in say the last 10 years that occurred directly because rescue services were unable to attend on a timely basis?

3. Do you have any idea of what is required size wise for an ocean capable power vessel to have a range of 1000NM (500 there and back), and being able to maintain a speed of lets say 25kts in 3-4m ocean seas? This is a big boat and these are almost always painted gray.

 

 

 

 

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Good information. Marinheiro. Yes I experienced coast watch some 10 years prior as a Australian custom service not a coast G service. I was some 300 to 400 mils from the Aussie coast and had not advised them the due notification to arrive in Australia. Came straight for us a faint spec on the horizon. No ziz zagging they new exactly where we where flying at 100 meters approx  above sea level. Asked what my intensions where which they obviously must have known by my departure declarations they stated that my verbal communication would be accepted as formal notice of arriving in Australia. No threat of an emergency, boat not in danger, trouble, not a distress situation or requiring assistance. Pure custom operation not CG. Fish that is not what I'm advocating. Pure surveillance work by customs Australia. I Thanked very much as I had over looked the notice requirement. Obviously I was being tracked by satellite or they had placed a bug or planted one on board. Similiarly I did not have a chart to go through a particular reef and their huge fast custom catamaran happened to be near by. As I always had the vhf on ch 16 they madje contact asking if they could be of assistance I stated yes and they gave me their chart they had on board delivered via their hard bottom small shore boat on the proviso that I handed the in at their on shore custom office on arrival.

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2 hours ago, Rehabilitated said:

You r entitled to your opinion which I disagree with. Stating that the cast guard personal r weekend warriors is a joke. Read their article re their latest asset with the latest equipment and the training they give and the qualifications they have to have to b on that particular asset, and their other assets

As 4 your explanation re the planes you confirm the S&R new planes r to big and r really for greater distances from NZ which I have no qualms re that area. To equipe smaller planes for the air force is not warranted when other military assets r begging for possession in military support operations. Much better for our CG to be equiped so as they can attend to their role particularly on the west coast of NZ, when the S&R are engaged on the greater distant areas in the large zone under their responsibilities or when required In the Pacific Island territories.

Its good to disagree Rehab, otherwise things would get boring quickly. It is also good to have a constructive conversation about it. This is turning into a good thread.

On the weekend warrior comment, I was going to say I could have chosen better wording, but no, I don't think so. These are butchers, mechanics and accountants out operating, maintaining and funding / planning the CG assets. The majority of their CG work is in the weekends, with weekly Tues night training, after their day jobs. They are non-professional volunteers who partake in training and operations in their spare time.

Where you are advocating for 20 m patrol boats and an air wing, these are multi-million dollar assets. You can't plan for them, fund them and maintaining them in your spare time in evenings and weekends. You need professional crew, mechanics, service technicians and ongoing big dollar budgets (with all the budget planning and asset management that entails). Butchers, mechanics and accounts are well suited to operating and maintaining 7 m RIB's, not 20 m patrol vessels and an air wing. We do however have govt agencies that are well suited to those tasks, where the Police already operate 3 x 20 m patrol vessels and 3 or 4 x helicopters with professional crew, who are on 24/7 call for emergency response.

Further, the military is a well establish organisation with the management systems, training, resources and budgets to plan for the procurement, maintenance and operations of suitable assets in this size range. They already have piles of assets that are badly underutilized and / or too expensive to run.

4 x Inshore Patrol Vessels, the first one I looked at was the Taupo. Its been listed as 'alongside' for the last 3 months, and the only mention of active service is helping the Rena crew evacuate back in 2011. These boats spend a hell of a lot of time anchored in Stanmore Bay.

http://navy.mil.nz/mtf/taupo/default.htm

I still maintain that the airforce should be providing air support for SAR etc, but in smaller cheaper planes. Or follow the more commercial model where the rescue helicopter services get tasked with SAR and funded by the police.

I don't want to sound offensive, but the vast majority of the CG's work is an AA service on water (separate to their valuable boating education branch). They appear to be trying to branch into an arm of a govt agency, which is not required and deterimental to their founding principles.

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5 minutes ago, Rehabilitated said:

Marinheiro yes I'm aware what they where but they r not that now. They r more professional and reading the article regarding their new asset re training and qualifications contradicts your post.

Rehab, as Fish noted CG crew have their Tuesday night land based and on water training. The correct statement is that their training is somewhat more advanced than it once was, but is still short of what say a Waiheke ferry crew member, let alone a Navy or US Coastguard professional crew member, goes thru. Every crew member on a Coastguard boat anywhere in NZ is a volunteer amateur, none receive payment for their contribution. I suspect though in the near future CG may advocate for paid skippers and this may cause alot of the volunteers to leave.

Fish is right about CG largely being an AA of the sea, my CG crew member brother refers to CG as the "Auckland Boat Towing Service" (and yes he has had to fish a couple of bodies out of the sea)

By the way you need to a bit careful reading CG's press releases now, they have proven to be somewhat misleading at times.

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Fish so what if they r butchers ECT They have high marine skills and exam qualifications probably more than you. A some of them r semi retired or retired with more than 30years boating experience both inshore and offshore experience, CG continuous trading and some have 20 to 30 years experience as boat owners doing their own boat servicing and repairs. Yes some r mechanics. To call them week end warriors ( as though they r the or 12 foot Alli dingy recreationalo fiisherman, occasional boatie with harbour experience only ) is just halarious  plus some have probably experienced numerous badi storms more so than u.

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