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Rehabilitated

Government giving significants funding to our Coastguard and surf Lifesavers.

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Marinheiro what's payment got do with it. A student that attends uni for 5 years gets a degree with not being on a wage or salary or not receiving any payment what so ever, can you classify him or loosly tie that person to, as a equivalent six former with university entrance as a street kid with skate boarding only person.

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31 minutes ago, Rehabilitated said:

Fish so what if they r butchers ECT They have high marine skills and exam qualifications probably more than you. A some of them r semi retired or retired with more than 30years boating experience both inshore and offshore experience, CG continuous trading and some have 20 to 30 years experience as boat owners doing their own boat servicing and repairs. Yes some r mechanics. To call them week end warriors ( as though they r the or 12 foot Alli dingy recreationalo fiisherman, occasional boatie with harbour experience only ) is just halarious  plus some have probably experienced numerous badi storms more so than u.

Yes, everything you say here is correct, but they are still amateurs. Volunteer amateurs. And there is no disrespect intended. They are well trained for what they do, and invest a lot of personal time. They are well suited to running 7.5 m RIBs. But when you start talking about 20 m patrol craft and aircraft, that is an entirely different story. There is a substantial difference to recreational experience (even vast amounts of it) and professional operations and qualifications. And this is not just operating these assets. It is planning their purchase, funding, maintenance, crew training, safe systems of operations, compliance with MNZ requirements and no end of other considerations. Examples being specialist radar, comms, paramedic equipment, or at the very least a well equipped sick bay with crew knowledgeable in trauma medicine, etc.

But more to the point, that type of asset is already provided for in NZ. And it doesn't get used very much.

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21 hours ago, Black Panther said:

They don't even need to exist. They choose to exist. 

Gee, apparently I've been wasting my time as a Coastguard volunteer all these years.

Funny though, most of the people we've helped home (typically 6500 - 7000 PA nationally and "helping" ranging from a jump start to finding and retrieving someone from the the water) seem pretty happy we were there - at least on the occasions I've attended anyway.

Agreed quite a few were boaties who seriously under estimated what they didn't know and some who took questionable short cuts but there have been plenty who were extremely experienced with a very well maintained vessel.

Guess there could have been a member of the public prepared to give them a hand but then there's also the thought of someone with the best of intentions hooking up say a 10 tonne boat with questionable gear, deck fittings not designed for it and no towing training or experience? What could go wrong... Also the volume - would members of the public and the police be able to assist close to 50 incidents ranging from jump starts to capsizes in the Northern Region alone within a 24 hour period?

We've attended quite a few injuries on yachts too, fingers in winches, kneecaps dislocated after falling against stays, dislocated shoulders after falling down a companion way, heads being used to slow booms down, burns in the galley, the list goes on when I think about it but they all seemed fairly pleased to see the rescue vessel rock up.

Yes the organisation has evolved. Hardly surprising when expectations and compliance requirements have changed dramatically over the time frame referred to. Want to use a private vessel and be reimbursed for costs so it's sustainable? Cool but make sure it's in MOSS and the Master is trained and qualified to MNZ's satisfaction.

Correcting / confirming just a few of the incorrect facts above (I haven't the time to address them all) - for the majority of NZ the charge out rate for non member, non-urgent assistance is $280 p hr of boat time inc GST. Yes technically no limits to the number of assists but the "frequent flyer" club is minuscule and can be easily managed when required.

As for volunteer training being less than that of a Waiheke ferry crew member - surely at best this is comparing apples and pears. I'm not familiar enough with it to compare their training in detail but know who I'd rather have calling the courses and timings to execute a sector search if they were on a rescue vessel looking for a member of my family..

To close I normally ignore the slagging from highly experienced sailors here who I agree are perhaps entitled to hold a sense of being highly self sufficient. But the inference that 2000 volunteers in NZ are wasting their time and "don't need to exist" seems a bit ignorant and disrespectful of what this group of people put in and achieve for their communities.

You would be very welcome to bring your experience and knowledge and join us but I suspect it's easier and much more fun to sit back and poke the borax...

 

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Dagwood you have read far too much into my comment, however i apologize if i have given offense, that was not my intent.

The point i was making was that CG is run by volunteers. As such they could all decide one day to go home. Then the world would have to decide what if anything to do about it.

However I still find some of the pronouncements from their heirarchy get under my skin. Most recently in the days before level 4 " don't take your boat out because we won't be on duty".

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12 minutes ago, Black Panther said:

Dagwood you have read far too much into my comment, however i apologize if i have given offense, that was not my intent.

The point i was making was that CG is run by volunteers. As such they could all decide one day to go home. Then the world would have to decide what if anything to do about it.

However I still find some of the pronouncements from their heirarchy get under my skin. Most recently in the days before level 4 " don't take your boat out because we won't be on duty".

Sorry if I singled you out - perhaps it was my interpretation that sparked a reaction so all good. :-)

I don't want to get drawn into the politics and the he said and she saids but as a volunteer, bursting my family's bubble to help a kid who somehow finds themselves drifting off a beach on an inflatable unicorn is one thing. Having to do that to go and jump start Bill and Ben 'cause they wanted to catch a feed - that's something else. 

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3 hours ago, Black Panther said:

Dagwood you have read far too much into my comment, however i apologize if i have given offense, that was not my intent.

The point i was making was that CG is run by volunteers. As such they could all decide one day to go home. Then the world would have to decide what if anything to do about it.

However I still find some of the pronouncements from their heirarchy get under my skin. Most recently in the days before level 4 " don't take your boat out because we won't be on duty".

Excellent post and well written. Good to see those involved defending their organisation, clarifying sweeping generalizations and misconceptions. Yes BP you have made a great point re their existence. What if???😎

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Dagwood, that was a good post, well put.

What is your view on the need for 20 m patrol vessels and an air wing? To me (and I may be ignorant) the situations you describe are all real events that are likely to occur (and have occurred, as you put it), and are easily responded to with the typical 7 m CG RIB? Are there many situations where you could do with a bigger or more sophisticated equipped boat?

And for the air wing, I am assuming that if you were doing a search grid or the like, and needed air support either Westpack Rescue or Eagle would be available?

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Wasted questions Fish. There have been a few severe weather situations in cook strait and further afield from memory that their existing assets would not have been suitable. I have never suggested that the wellington region require or obtain those assets. 

Don't be surprised if that member does bother to reply you have expressed total disrespect and insulted probably most CG members and officials.

10 hours ago, Dagwood said:
On 19/05/2020 at 1:51 PM, Black Panther said:

 

"Gee, apparently I've been wasting my time as a Coastguard volunteer all these years." ................

No disrespect fish, sussgest you read the post again in it's entirety.

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5 hours ago, Rehabilitated said:

Wasted questions Fish. There have been a few severe weather situations in cook strait and further afield from memory that their existing assets would not have been suitable. I have never suggested that the wellington region require or obtain those assets. 

Don't be surprised if that member does bother to reply you have expressed total disrespect and insulted probably most CG members and officials.

No disrespect fish, sussgest you read the post again in it's entirety.

Now don't go getting like that Rehad. This is a very good thread you've started and we are all interacting in a positive manner.

I haven't expressed total disrespect and insulted CG members. If I have offended any CG volunteers I apologies right now for that. I was not my intention. And I'm sure Dagwood is capable of speaking for himself, he certainly is perfectly articulate in communicating his view. 

I have expressed a view that I don't think it is a good idea to move from a volunteer organisation to a professional organisation. I think what is going on here is that my view is counter to your view. I am not pushing that view because you pushed the opposite view, or because I want to prove you wrong, I'm pushing that view because that is what I believe. The whole point of this forum is to exchange ideas and expand ones mind. I'm happy to take a point and change my position based on compelling arguments put to me (but they will need to be good).

Now I hope we can continue what is a constructive thread and continue being kind to everyone, including those with differing views to ourselves.

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