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17 hours ago, Ian M said:

An Open Letter to Yachting New Zealand’s Board Members, Club Commodores around NZ and anyone else who enjoys Yachting – Cruising or Racing.

As a former Club Manager, Commodore, Vice Commodore, Executive Member, Club Handicapper Sponsor and sundry other positions in yachting over the past 40 years I feel well qualified to make comment on the issues surrounding Yachting NZ and its Fees/Levy demands.

My home club these days is the Waikawa Boating Club in Picton. My Club has been in conflict with Yachting NZ and its fees/levy since 1995 when we first voiced our concerns as to why Yachting NZ expected our Launch owners to be included into any calculations when affiliation fees were calculated. We have always said that we accept that all our Yacht Racing Members should be included in the calculations of Fees/Levy payable to Yachting New Zealand. It is worth noting here that less than 9% of Club Members participate in Yacht Racing events.

Yachting NZ rush to tell Clubs like mine that they provide an advocacy service on all things marine around New Zealand …. What a total sop! I don’t think advocacy attracts much more of a budget each year than Yachting NZ spends on Audit Fees……..

Let’s face facts… Yachting NZ is about Yacht Racing or more correctly the upper levels of Dinghy Racing in New Zealand as portrayed in each and every week’s e news. Yachting New Zealand do not provide Clubs with any administration support or guidance on how to run a Club successfully in this day and age. It comes as no surprise that an ever growing number of Clubs are talking to Clubs NZ checking out what they have to offer. Clubs NZ provides assistance to those managing Clubs as well as to elected officials who suddenly find themselves up to their eyeballs in legal responsibilities. Covid 19 proved the differences with Clubs NZ providing helpful assistance on day to day matters and Yachting NZ telling us Dinghy Sailing would resume soon! Well, whoop de do!

While the Waikawa Boating Club has a reasonably large membership fewer than 100 reside locally (the rest are generally based in Christchurch or Wellington) and my club relies on these people to keep it ticking over and the bills paid. I guess my Club is similar to many others in always looking for different ways to bring the dollars in the front door. Last year the Club was approached by a group of locals who wanted to be able to enjoy the facilities on a casual basis, they have no interest in any on the water activities at all, do not own boats of any description and wouldn’t know a tack or gybe from a hammer or a screwdriver.  After lengthy discussions an agreement was reached and a Social Club was formed. Instead of congratulating the Club on finding a way to increase its income and secure its future Yachting NZ insisted quite bluntly that these people had to be included in the WBC annual return and that their membership fees to their organisation had to be declared. YNZ argued that the social club was part of the WBC and would not hear any arguments that it wasn’t. The Waikawa Boating Club (under duress) paid the fees and then requested that the social club become an absolute entity in its own right, this was attended to over the following months.

We note with interest that a good number of clubs around New Zealand have welcomed other organisations to share their facilities and social occasions without any hassle from Yachting NZ and have not had the membership of those organisations counted in Levy calculations.

When it came to Levy Calculations this year Yachting NZ insisted once again that the Social Club membership details had to be provided to them and that they had to be included in the Levy calculations. The Waikawa Boating Club advised Yachting NZ that they could not provide the details as the Social Club was not part of the Waikawa Boating Club nor did they answer to the club for any membership details. Yachting NZ totally refuses to accept that.

Where does that leave us? Our AGM this year has decided that enough is enough with Yachting NZ, and that should they refuse to accept our assurances as to our membership numbers and that leads to us being struck off the membership register of Yachting NZ then so be it. We are sick and tired of being poorly treated by an organisation that has become less and less relevant to our membership and boaties in general as time goes by. We will be happy to keep our $16k in Yachting NZ Levies in our own pocket (and yes we know how that multiplies when it reaches Yachting NZ).

If/When Yachting NZ strikes the Waikawa Boating Club from its register then that will mean that a sizeable chunk of central NZ boaties (Mana, Waikawa and Pelorous) do not belong to Yachting NZ and perhaps at that point an organisation might be formed that looks after grass roots cruising clubs in our country because it must be as obvious to you as it is to us that Yachting NZ under its current (and previous) Board(s) do not, and its little wonder votes of no confidence are being mooted.

In closing I make this comment – Dinghy Clubs and elite sailors around New Zealand are well served by Yachting NZ, the rest of us are not and it’s time for a change.

 

Regards

Ian Michel – Racing Yachtie

And Yes I enjoy racing my yacht twice a week!

My brother belongs to Mt.Maunganui Fishing Club which is part of Mt.Ocean Sports Club. The other clubs are Mt.Dive Club and Mt.Yacht Club. Apparently Mt.Yacht Club has the cheapest subs of the 3 so all the social members join the YC at $70 a head. YNZ thus cleans up around $30 each from these social members ...about 200 of them he tells me or about $6000 . Obviously the closest these members get to the water is when they are at the bar. (clubhouse is built out over the water). Nice work if you can get it. See why YNZ is hanging on in there. Look at their salary bill largely funding the 5 ring circus and elite dinghy sailing, mainly Auckland and you can see what a bunch of suckers the rest of NZ is being played for

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A big thanks to all those who responded to my last posting and especially to the Club Commodores who responded either to me or to the Waikawa Boating Club directly offering their support on the issue.

An Open Letter to Yachting New Zealand’s Board Members, Club Commodores around NZ and anyone else who enjoys Yachting – Cruising or Racing. As a former Club Manager, Commodore, Vice Commodore, Ex

The post was about collecting and reporting personal data. If you want to start a thread about benefits or otherwise of associating with YNZ go for it, put your name to it. There was no discussion rel

1 hour ago, armchairadmiral said:

My brother belongs to Mt.Maunganui Fishing Club which is part of Mt.Ocean Sports Club. The other clubs are Mt.Dive Club and Mt.Yacht Club. Apparently Mt.Yacht Club has the cheapest subs of the 3 so all the social members join the YC at $70 a head. YNZ thus cleans up around $30 each from these social members ...about 200 of them he tells me or about $6000 . Obviously the closest these members get to the water is when they are at the bar. (clubhouse is built out over the water). Nice work if you can get it. See why YNZ is hanging on in there. Look at their salary bill largely funding the 5 ring circus and elite dinghy sailing, mainly Auckland and you can see what a bunch of suckers the rest of NZ is being played for

Not sure this is an akl vs the rest of the country thing. I think there's a fair number of Auckland clubs in a similar position. And clubs outside of akl that do receive ynz support for their dinghy sailing programs. 

Seems like YNZs position is that they should be able to tax the general yacht club membership to fund dinghy sailing. Meanwhile the membership (largely keelboat/launch or even non-boat owners) potentially isn't getting back what they expect (or anything at all from what I can tell). 

I'm not across whether this is commonplace in nz in other sports - does your average suburban rugby club have its fees used by rugby nz to fund ripper rugby? Or does athletics NZ take fees from your average running club to fund high performance coaching for our next olympic runner? 

If so, then maybe the membership of the yacht clubs should suck it up. If not, then you have to ask why YNZ think they're different from the other sporting bodies? 

 

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38 minutes ago, Tamure said:

ynz are you listening?

Does anyone on this forum really think YNZ would respond to this letter? It is not from a member club but from an individual (no offence intended Ian).

The issue of YNZ levies has been going on for years.  Having been personally on the receiving end of the heavy handed approach by YNZ and its CEO in this regard; and a member of Waikawa Boating Club at present I have considerable sympathy for some of the statements made.

I do not however agree that YNZ is absent - in my experience the RSO's have been available and receptive often becoming the conduit back to YNZ Head office. The safety regs are being reviewed however I am unsure as to what the drivers are for this review - I would hope it is a pragmatic review with a view to reducing costs and barriers to entry. I have posted comments regarding YNZ advocacy before and viewed submissions made by YNZ on regional plans - this is done on behalf of all YNZ members to maintain , improve and enhance access to coastal waters and in some cases lakes and even rivers.

I do have a problem with being levied multiple times if a member of multiple clubs. It also means that YNZ is submitting false information as to the actual number of the sport's participants if YNZ is counting the same party multiple times - this is very important to remedy especially for funding applications.  Hence,  I think the need for further personal information, which then breaches privacy matters unless given willingly by the individual. 

Like every not for profit at present - income and participants are shrinking which will be placing significant pressure on operating budgets - like many maybe its time the organisation was right-sized.  If you feel strongly stand for the YNZ board and participate - or get your club to disaffiliate and go cruising and be happy.

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I think if YNZ can’t administrate yachting with funding from participants (ie, not those they do nothing for), they are doing something wrong. Each participant should only be charged the fee once too, or it’s discouraging participation and or taking money out of clubs pockets, which is ludicrous, the opposite of what YNZ should be aiming to do. 
 

The advocacy argument doesn’t wash too much with me, they can do that on behalf of those they do represent, that does not mean everyone who touches the ocean or a lake owes them a fee in return, that’s just some positive flow on effect sailing can offer the community. 

YNZ should be taking a little money from all participants, then using economy of scale to provide each club with more support, promotion and assistance than they could have gotten by spending that money themselves. No?
 

Cart club doesn’t  fund The V8’s. Club rugby doesn’t fund the All Blacks. The local athletics club doesn’t fund the Olympic team. Am I wrong? Certainly club rugby doesn’t fund club soccer, just because they both play on grass and wear boots.... 

We also as sailors, don’t pay a fee to the power boat association, what right does YNZ have to ask power boaters to pay them?
 

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5 hours ago, splat said:

Does anyone on this forum really think YNZ would respond to this letter? It is not from a member club but from an individual (no offence intended Ian)

Publicly, no they won't.

But are they reacting to it? Oh hell yes, both fast and hard.

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3 hours ago, Knot Me... maybe said:

Publicly, no they won't.

But are they reacting to it? Oh hell yes, both fast and hard.

But what can they really do? YNZ has a business model based on taking money from clubs and not delivering anything much in return. It's a very comfortable model for those whom can get their snouts in the trough.

 

To do something about it they would need to abandon their current path and switch to a strategy of actually adding value to regional clubs. that will take, at the very least a CEO sacking/resignation, clean out of the management team, massive restructure and a pivot to grass roots organising and engagement perhaps backed by a change in levy sytems and structures. That's a massive step to take. Usualy that only happens when there is a revenue or solvency crisis which isn't there quite yet (could be coming though). Why leave the couch to go  off to work when all your needs a met at your nice cozy home?

I will be proposing that our club disaffiliates at the AGM and that we all join a yacht racing club if we want to do racing outside our club. It just makes no sense to remain part of the current set-up for a struggling cruising club outside of Auckland, especially when the 3 or 4 boats that do races out of the local area can join SSANZ or NZMHYC or the like to go race.

 

Edited by TazzyDevil
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Well, if it makes you feel any better, YNZ appear typical of other national sporting bodies. This story is very concerning, but aside from the headline, points to fundamental governance issues in NZ national sporting bodies...

"[Gymnastics NZ] is a toxic autocracy with little or no checks or balances," the person who has been involved in the sport for more than a decade said.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/422606/gymnasts-laid-complaints-about-alleged-abuse

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