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On 23/07/2020 at 8:56 AM, crump said:

Where does the performance come from? E.g. a Young 88 is only marginally longer than a Davidson 28 and not vastly different in sail area but rates significantly higher in performance. Data lists it at almost half the weight I guess. It doesn't have the waterline length but rates similar to a Stewart 34 in race performance?

I see both these boats claiming 20kts downwind at times which is fairly unimaginable to us. I have dug up a much bigger spinnaker for us to cause trouble with now but we haven't seen its upper end yet.

Both the Y88 and Stew34 are fairly high on my desirable list. And no one is convincing me to campaign the D28 for a coastal? Aww 😄

Hull shape, weight, sail area, appendage drag, balance. There's a range of factors. Both 88 or 930 will plane downwind which is why the big speeds are achievable. The hull shape and weight of the d28 don't really support this. 

The d28 is a good boat but is kind of a generation behind the others mentioned in this thread in terms of design thinking. 

930s are great as pointed out lots in this thread, but are narrow so feel smaller inside than an 88 or similar. 

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This is escalating quickly, there's a couple of Ross 1066's on TradeMe that look good fun too... Honestly right now I'm planning to list my boat, sail with some other crews, and go kayak fishing

I think the main question you need to ask yourself is what’s more important, cruising or racing. 1020 or  S34 best of both, 930 more race/sportboat style, 88 good for both but a bit dearer.  

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3 hours ago, Knot Me... maybe said:

Is that a centercase still in Ballistic?

If you think she is open mine would come as a shock. A photo taken from the same place would look just the same as long as you removed the case, galley, cupboards, nav station, shelves, light fitting, wood trim, squabs, warning sign, leecloths, lectronics panel, 50% of the dome nuts and widen the gap between the bunk fronts a fair bit. You can leave the paint and windows.....and add in some substantial ribs around the top of the keel plus a slightly bigger box under the bulkhead opening which contains part of our MMBU system and a small bilge pump.

I do like that wood trim, it finishes it off so much nicer than my seafog on seafog on seafog. I have considered throwing some clashing on for the aesthetics but never found the time.

C'mon KM you know apart from the C/B case the rest is foam and a very thin layer of glass plus tabbing and fillets ..I'd argue it weighs bugger all. Besides why have we never seen a photo of the interior of the elusive reptile? Crump might want to see what a modern interior interpretation of a 930 like think looks like. Pics or it never happened!

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19 minutes ago, splat said:

C'mon KM you know apart from the C/B case the rest is foam and a very thin layer of glass plus tabbing and fillets ..I'd argue it weighs bugger all. Besides why have we never seen a photo of the interior of the elusive reptile? Crump might want to see what a modern interior interpretation of a 930 like think looks like. Pics or it never happened!

Yeah pics !     Last ones you posted were of some dubious looking rudders about 3 years ago 

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2 hours ago, Deep Purple said:

Yeah but then they can do this, coastal 2014, our very average 930 half an hour in front of the first S34 and 2 hours in front of the first Y88 and look at the boats behind us....

I'd be lying if I said I hadn't shared a couple of these vids with the crew for "inspiration". Imagine how far behind the D28 would be! 😄

Here's the thing though, I only have a couple of years sailing under my belt and I have the most keel boat racing experience out of my crew. My crew pool is a couple dinghy sailors, a couple of solid cruisers, and a mix of new sailors. They are all doing great and are an awesome bunch to sail with but we're still building basic competence with things like the kite work, race starts and so on. I want to move up a generation so we're actually in the race and myself and the crew can grow, but honestly I think a hotted up 930 is going to be more race boat that we can do justice for now. Am I wrong?

The other side is that half my time on the boat is spent with my kids or newbie crew that I'm teaching. The D28 may be slow but she's pretty confidence inspiring and she's well kitted out to make people feel at home. Currently I sail a newbie crew on Saturday and we putt about making fancy coffee and have beer cooling in the freezer. I can sail it solo while my kids devour all the snacks downstairs. On Sunday the race crew arrives and we sail hard and fast... well... it's all relative! 😅 Well also have fancy things like the ability to stand to wash your hands in the bathroom and a door which might seem excessive but the girls seem to like.

Scarlet (and I presume the other competitive 930's) is very small up front, and stripped just about naked for racing at the moment. I'm just not going to run the boat like that most of the time. If I could run two boats then sure... that 930 blasting downwind looks aaaaawesome. I think I'm going to have to compromise though!

That said, I've never actually sailed on one so maybe I'm wrong. The things I have been on for points of reference include my D28, the squadron's Elliot 7 and MRX fleets, Wagstaff 40, Ross 1066, Sunburst, and a scattering of other boats.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Knot Me... maybe said:

Is that a centercase still in Ballistic?

If you think she is open mine would come as a shock. A photo taken from the same place would look just the same as long as you removed the case, galley, cupboards, nav station, shelves, light fitting, wood trim, squabs, warning sign, leecloths, lectronics panel, 50% of the dome nuts and widen the gap between the bunk fronts a fair bit. You can leave the paint and windows.....and add in some substantial ribs around the top of the keel plus a slightly bigger box under the bulkhead opening which contains part of our MMBU system and a small bilge pump.

I do like that wood trim, it finishes it off so much nicer than my seafog on seafog on seafog. I have considered throwing some clashing on for the aesthetics but never found the time.

Sounds like the way Scarlet is currently. Seafog sounds heavy though.

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3 hours ago, raz88 said:

One other point going back to the original post - the whiting 29 that's come up in your racetrack search is a slow one.

Ah cool, that was just the class rating off this page: http://racetrack.org.nz/select_class.php. Thanks for all the thoughts in your posts here too. 

Comment on the pricing of Y88's was just after looking at TradeMe. Maybe they are being a bit optimistic there? They seem like a nice fit for what I want to do without taking the budget way up.

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Hi Crump

We are definitely spoiled for choice in NZ when it comes to a broad and diverse bunch of slightly older but great value 8-10 metre boats.

88 disciples are of course biased towards Jim's amazing design and you could pick up a decent 88 for anything between $20 and $70k in the last 12 months. The price reflects the age and upkeep of the gear.

We have owners of all sorts of ages and experience and run events to match. Feel free to get in touch with the association https://www.young88.org.nz/about/committee/

The association has to be strict about enforcing the class rules to try and keep racing fair and costs down (no easy thing!!) so make sure that you check a boats measurement/certification status/potential with the owner and the class measurer if you are buying with the intention of doing class racing.

We can refer you to some of our recent new owners if you want to get their feedback and compare notes.

Good luck

Mike Leyland

 

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18 hours ago, splat said:

C'mon KM you know apart from the C/B case the rest is foam and a very thin layer of glass plus tabbing and fillets ..I'd argue it weighs bugger all. Besides why have we never seen a photo of the interior of the elusive reptile? Crump might want to see what a modern interior interpretation of a 930 like think looks like. Pics or it never happened!

I'd argue Ballistic weighs bugger all as well ........ but I have no idea why we are doing that.

Bar the cockpit shape (which includes a cut down transom, the one thing a 88 has all over a 930) reptile is the same as she was the day she was launched but with some extra structural goodness, a retractable prod, a rather unique safety system and the ability to circumnavigate the world using less than a teaspoon of fossil fuel. She is also 47kg heavier than her last weigh in.

Scarlet is a bit old school in her interior and she could do with a wee tickle but sailing wise she is quick when sailed properly. At 30K she is a very good buy. She has beaten Fast Company a fair bit and that's not an easy task considering FC  often boots the bums of S34's, 88's, 1020's and all the other 930's to mention just a few...but she's not a cruzer that's for sure. 

Having had and sailed a lot on 88's and 930's the big differences today are - 930's are a dingy with a stuck down centreboard that gets into the Ya Hoo pretty quick. 88's are a keeler and need a bit more of a nudge to find the ya Hoo. While we did in a 930 I'd still say 88's are a better family cruiser.

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