Jump to content

Damn the Rules, Rocna Inventor doing the NW Passage


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 131
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I've reported this post. Adopting the language of the extreme right to describe people who support the rule of law sets a dangerous precedent for this forum. 

I'm getting offended by the amount of offense being taken around here. No one is calling anyone a w^&#$@r, a c**t or a fuckwit, which would be highly offensive. The OP is ju

Posted Images

Meaning of Passage is defined under Article 18 of the UNCLOS III.

1. Passage means navigation through the territorial sea for the purpose of:

(a) traversing that sea without entering internal waters or calling at a roadstead or port facility outside internal waters; or

(b) proceeding to or from internal waters or a call at such roadstead or port facility.

2. Passage shall be continuous and expeditious. However, passage includes stopping and anchoring, but only in so far as the same are incidental to ordinary navigation or are rendered necessary by force majeure or distress or for the purpose of rendering assistance to persons, ships or aircraft in danger or distress.

 

In the current situation this bit (in Orange) might come into effect though;

United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS III) was adopted in 1982 [1] , it is also known as the Law of the Sea Treaty [2] . Its purpose is to establish a comprehensive set of rules governing the oceans and to replace previous U.N. Conventions on the Law of the Sea, 1958 (UNCLOS I) which was adopted in 1958 and another in 1960 (UNCLOS II), since these two convention were believed to be inadequate. The term Innocent Passage is defined under international law referring to a ship or aircraft’s right to enter and pass through another’s territory so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the other state. Under Article 19 of the UNCLOS III it is defined “Passage is innocent so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State.” Such passage shall take place in conformity with this Convention and with other rules of international law. The right of innocent passage of foreign ships through the territorial waters of a coastal state is one of the oldest and most universally recognized rules of public international law.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Island Time said:

In the current situation this bit (in Orange) might come into effect though;

None of it applies because the Canadian position is that the NW Passage are Canadian Internal Waterways and therefore are not subject to Article 18 at all. 

For them to deny Right of Passage under that clause they'd first have to accept that the nw passage was not an internal waterway.  And that isn't going to happen... 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Kevin McCready said:

Wheels promoted the notion in his post and I hope it was just an error in understanding on his behalf and not a part of his belief system. These are important matters and it's essential that we don't make such fundamental errors in discussing them and in treating people humanely and treating them in accordance with our legal obligations.

My comment was only in support of KM's understanding of how it all took place.
While I am all for refugees coming here, I do think there needs to be a certain process that needs to be adhered to. I mean by this, we will take in x number if refugees for the year. This guy managed to jump the cue so to speak. That means that some other person that was more toward the front of the que has now possibly missed out. If it did work out that way, I don't think that is exactly fair.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wheels, there is no refugee queue. That is precisely the nasty meme that the RW is spreading. Please stop spreading it. If a person seeking refugee status arrives on our shores they are entitled to have their claims heard no matter how they arrived. There is no queue whatsoever that we can say to them 'go back to where you came from and wait your turn in the queue'. BTW, last time I looked at the figures, most illegal migrants to NZ and Australia were from the UK and USA.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Kevin McCready said:

Wheels, there is no refugee queue. That is precisely the nasty meme that the RW is spreading. Please stop spreading it. If a person seeking refugee status arrives on our shores they are entitled to have their claims heard no matter how they arrived. There is no queue whatsoever that we can say to them 'go back to where you came from and wait your turn in the queue'. BTW, last time I looked at the figures, most illegal migrants to NZ and Australia were from the UK and USA.

This is the last comment I am going to make on this as many are getting testy about it not be relevant to the topic.

But you are wrong. In regards to the discussed individual, he was/is part of the number of refugees we are taking in from that Oz Island group. We are taking a certain number each year(1500 was it?). So you could call that a Cue of sorts. And they were supposed to be vetted to ensure a possible terrorist was not using the situation to sneak through. It has nothing to do with Migrants, illegal or otherwise. These people have refugee status without being on our shores by the way. Oz placed them in camps on the Island and the US was supposed to take them till Trump cried unfair and pulled the plug on that. So NZ said we'll step up to the plate and increase our intake number.
This particular individual managed the cue because thye Greens Lawyer Woman got involved and they hatched the plan of getting him here for the Book thingy.
So you get your facts straight.

One thing I cannot claim as correct is that there was a rumor that things may have been a little more "personal" between them and she used her position to get certain things actioned. But that was a rumor. Although one has to question why all the effort to get him here if he was just one of the many refugees.

And apart from the rumor, I am looking at the facts..... well as accurately as you can get them from the Gvt and reputable Media. Not some Meme or whatever, not from some biased Left/Right groups.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hiya Wheels.

Refugees can come into the country in a number of ways. The UN refugee resettlement program is one, direct application from outside a country is another, application for asylum once landed in a country is another.  There is no queue.  Please repeat this to yourself - there is no queue.

The people on Manus Island have not been transferred to NZ as a group.  In fact, the Aus govt has specifically declined to allow that.  This particular individual was part of a deal between Aus and US for a refugee swap, but that had not been finalised as you note.

He was not in NZ because of his refugee status per se - he was here as a writer with an international reputation.  He was invited by that group.  His invitation may have been via a lawyer - its not uncommon for them to act as an intermediary or advocate since refugees, almost by definition, lack capacity to act for themselves. 

He applied for and got a work visa for that purpose.  When the visa lapsed he applied as a refugee.  He went through the standard process presumably - no political party or other entity questioned it at the time - and was granted refugee status through that process.  The process is more than just ensuring they are not a terrorist btw, and given the well documented history for this individual, its unlikely that this was ever a concern.

So, there is no queue, but there is a quota.  Its not first-come-first served.  Each application is taken on its own merits.  He applied, the application was considered against the relevant criteria, he was accepted.

Nothing to see here, move along.

Edited by aardvarkash10
added link to Immigration NZ site
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...