Jump to content

Biting the bullet


Bimini Babe

Recommended Posts

OK, so after PADDLING my boat 4 miles last Sunday night after both motor and wind resolutely died, I've decided that the IRD can wait for their money - I'm spending my saved-up end-of-year tax on a new engine.

 

Does anyone have particular feelings when it comes to new Yanmars/Volvos, around the 3cyl, 20hp-ish range? Personally I'm leaning towards a Yanmar, as I'm planning on starting a circumnavigation within the next couple of years, and I'm thinking parts availability/prices around the world...

 

That said, I have a Volvo gearbox at the moment and the new Volvo will apparently bolt straight on - no alterations required. It's a v-drive, by the way. I've also been quoted a much lower price on the Volvo. But do I really want a little green demon in my boat...? I'm not so sure! The Volvo dealer assures me that the new ones are fantastic (as they would) but from what I gather parts are still more expensive than the Yanmar equivalent?

 

And am I unfairly dismissing all the Nanni's, Bukhs, Lombardinis, etc on basis of parts availability around the world?

 

Perhaps one or two of you fine people could also point me in the way of a friendly (read: hard up and willing to negotiate) dealer too?

 

My apologies if you're experiencing any deja vu right now - I was sure I started a motor-related thread some time ago but I'm afraid I can't find it now.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you buy a new Volvo it should last the trip with no more than routine maintenance (mine did), but Volvo bits cost a lot, you can get generic filters etc, but then Volvo get pissy about their warranty, but then in out of the way places you won't be going to "authorised Volvo places" anyway.

Tough call.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Volvo parts dearer than Yanmar parts???? Really???? Hmmm ... wouldn't have thought so.

 

My experience with Yanmar dealers is that the price of genuine Yanmar parts is horrendous. Take engine oil filters as an example: - a genuine Yanmar labelled oil filter is about $120 - generic oil filter (same filter made in the same factory as the Yanmar branded filter) is about $25. Bear in mind that some of the Yanmar engines are actually Toyota units (some are kubota - just like the Beta marine engines) and you can pick up an oil filter from your Toyota dealer for about $20-25.

 

Yanmars have a reputation as being super reliable, etc .... so why are so many internal engine parts (valves, pistons, bore liners, bearings, etc) sold? Yanmar dealers have a policy of not selling workshop manuals in an effort to prevent owners from doing their own service and repair work.

 

I don't think that Yanmars are a bad engine brand, but I don't think that Volvos are lemons either. Pretty much any new modern diesel engine is going to be a reasonable unit that with care and maintenance will go to the moon and back.

 

I was talking to a friend that has Volvo in his 54 footer and he was saying that parts prices weren't that bad for the Volvo.

 

I would seriously do some checking around for the prices of common service parts (filters, impellers, exhaust elbows, etc) for yourself rather than just taking it as gospel that X is cheap and Y is not.

 

You may want to have a chat with Smithy09 about the prices of Yanmar parts - he's just recently had an eye-opening experience.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You might want to look into the Beta engines as well - rumour has it that their pricing is (or has been) hard to beat. Think Fineline went that way.

 

Presumably - while I understand your reaction to your engine letting you down, which has happened to most of us at some stage - whatever happened to your engine is terminal? or the last in a long series of failures?

 

The rule of thumb seems to be that you need to add 50% to the cost of the engine by the time it is installed. Sounds high to me too but I keep hearing the same thing again and again.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't give you any specific information - however a few thoughts:

 

- http://www.theengineroom.co.nz/ - have spoken to these guys about doing a new beta engine in the past which would have been able to be set up to bolt on to my volvo saildrive. Really friendly and came with a good recommendation.

 

I would personally look for an engine that it is easy to get spare parts for the 'non marinised' version - (for example an engine that is based on say a kubota). That way certain parts should be cheaper and easier to obtain if you can buy them from the local tractor supplier in far away places.

 

I've got an older volvo diesel in my yacht which runs fine. However I find the spare very expensive. Wishing I had purchased the spare one that came up on trade me a year ago and pulled it down for the experience and for spares!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I went for a new Beta 25hp and its a great little engine. Bolted straight up to the Volvo saildrive so the install was very easy. Same engine bed just different engine mounts. Beta do customised adapters and engine mounts to bolt straight on to most saildrives and gearboxes.

 

While you are away you can buy most parts from beta or a nanni dealer (or a kubota tractor shop) but I suspect if you get it installed properly you won't need any parts for a long time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If your boat is small enough, get an outboard. Then you can take it to the mechanic rather than the other way round - big savings. Nearly every little village in the world has an outboard mechanic, some very good at getting things going again with very little in resources. When it does eventually go terminal unscrew it and replace it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just put a new 3 cylinder 20hp Beta in the 88. Andy is great to deal with and with the dollar against the pound munch cheaper than the equivalent Yanmar. Lighter 2

Link to post
Share on other sites

go for something that's kubota based and reach some compromise as to just how many HP you realistically need which'll affect diesel consumption (as well as how much you need to carry) and, before you bugger off, get a spare exhaust mixer to take with you

Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple of other random thoughts:

 

- a Coastguard membership @ $97 annually entitles you to an unlimited number of assists of up to 30 nm (along with a bunch of other stuff, and also a sense of supporting a worthwhile service). Sure, you would still have an engine to be repaired (and the ignominy of having been towed in) but it probably would have reduced the impact of the situation

 

I've decided that the IRD can wait for their money - I'm spending my saved-up end-of-year tax on a new engine.

- best you aim for enough to start your circumnavigation reasonably shortly - while most people here would agree that a boat engine is an essential purchase, that particular organisation may not be so accommodating in their view.

Link to post
Share on other sites

For my money as an ex volvo mechanic, marine engineer and current owner of a 30' boat with a 2gm20 yanmar I would not go past the yanmar option. Ours has a lot more hours on it than I would normally admit but it is strong, simple and reliable if a little industrial sounding. Direct sea water cooling removes a bunch of complexity without seeming to have any long term effects. (recently had the engine out to replace shaft seal so had a real good chance to eyeball the cooling passages and no problems visible). Only weak point seems to be the factory mounts which are expensive and seem to deteriorate quickly. One of ours separated a while back and as it wasn't on the ahead thrust side I sikaflexed it back together and it has been 100% OK. After market direct replacements are available. A Kiwi couple in Fiji a couple of years ago accidentally filled their engine cylinders with water when flushing the engine for storage, came back and found it seized. From memory the total cost of new pistons, gaskets, labour etc was less then $1k so not hideously expensive. No special tools needed and so simple any 3rd world mechanic with limited training can fix it easily.

Link to post
Share on other sites

First off, a new installation is going to outlast your trip. The only things you should be looking at replacing will be oil, filters and cooling impellor and maybe, if you spend several years out there, perhaps an exhaust/water mixer. You have to be very unlucky for anything major to fail on pretty much any Diesel and a major component failure will likely do so early on in it's life and while under warranty.

Costs of transplants come into it when you are fitting an engine different to what you have, as in either make of Hp. The costs come in with things like engine mounting, exhaust, plumbing and so on and extra Hp means shaft and prop replacement, which is where the big expensive in repowering come in.

The new generation Volvos(I will leave my personal feelings about Volvo out of it) have the high pressure fuel rails. As far as I know (and please correct me if I am wrong) Yanmar does not(small ones anyway) nor for that matter, any other smaller brand. The high pressure fuel rails means the injectors are computer contolled and this means a flatter Hp/Torque curve and better fuel economy, along with easier starting. Normally Volvo parts are stupid expensive. Yanmar used to be cheap. Maybe, from what Grinna states, that has changed. Most of the names you mentioned are easy to get parts for around the world, or at least you can order and have sent anywhere in the world fairly easy these days. I certainlly would not discount any of those other makes...well apart from Buhk.

By the way, every brand of engine out there is quite possibly not an actual of that brand. Most Brands use different engines to fill a range and specialise in making just a few. Even Volvo use several different makes to fill there range. Each manufacturer specialises in a particular engine size and then buys in others to create a particular range. Plus Engines are rarely made as marine engines. That part is done later.So the supplier buys the basic engine and then fits all the marinising gear to it and sells it as a marine engine. Yanmar and Perkins are the only two manufacturers (that I know of) that designed engines on the drawing board as a marine engine. That is not saying all their engines were, but a few in thier range were.

So hopefully that gives some food for thoughts, but I also feel it hasn't really answered your question. Apart maybe from looking at the other brands on offer as well.

Oh and I believe the real biggy is not the engine itself, but the installation. I have seen so many bad installations that have given the engine a bad name, when it was the dipsticks that installed the engine that caused the problems. So get a good installer.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Each manufacturer specialises in a particular engine size and then buys in others to create a particular range. Plus Engines are rarely made as marine engines. That part is done later.So the supplier buys the basic engine and then fits all the marinising gear to it and sells it as a marine engine. Yanmar and Perkins are the only two manufacturers (that I know of) that designed engines on the drawing board as a marine engine.

 

 

From memory I have Perkins stamped on the block of my 2003 Volvo. I have just had it completely rebuilt from scratch and in hind site I would have been better to repower. The parts were stupidly expensive and had to come from Europe. The only consolation I had was that the previous owner paid all the bills as part of the warranty.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the replies guys.

 

OK, from what I gather, one new engine is about as good as another. So check out the cheaper Kubota-based ones - which I shall - and give Andy @ The Engine Room a call (a name that's come up in previous engine threads quite regularly I see!)

 

Installation - the plan was always to DIY this to save cost. I too have heard the 50% rule, which is a little scary on a $10k motor, so DIY installation is an attractive alternative... Can it really go that horribly wrong? Should I seriously be considering professional installation? What are the possible pitfalls of DIY installation that I'm not aware of? I'm anticipating a severe backlash to the suggestion of self-installation, in which case, who do you recommend I go to that's not a 'dipstick'?

 

Interesting you should bash the Bukh Wheels. Any reason? I've heard good things about them too, but of course, everyone's got their reasons. And I thought Volvos were designed as marines too? I know most of the rest are all tractors etc!

Link to post
Share on other sites

BB ive got a 13 year old volvo 30HP in my boat and its built around a Perkins engine block.

 

and FWIW, i love my little green monster.

 

Also, are you sure you need a new engine? Just because it wouldnt start one day doesnt mean you need to rip it out and replace. Maybe give it some love, a nice clean starter motor and a new glowplug?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks TL, but this motor and I? We have a history. She used to only start for me. A gentle woman's touch was all she needed to breathe her into life. But the relationship has now soured beyond repair, and it's D.I.V.O.R.C.E time I'm afraid.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The rule of thumb of double the cost is when you are putting in something bigger and then you need tp replace Prop and shaft and all that goes with that. The only major issue you have with a different similar Hp engine is the engine mount position, the gearbox mounting, wich can usually be done with an adaptor plate and you may have exhaust outlet on a different side or position and maybe water intake on a different side or position. Apart from that, normally it's not too hard.

The issue I have with Volvo is the exhorbatant cost of parts. Not filters, but actual parts. Especially when they are often engines that are available from their own manufacturer far far cheaper.

You would be surprised how many different Marine engines are Perkins origin. Even Catipiller. They have brought the tooling for the Perkins 6.354 and are now biulding the Perkins as their own engine.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...