Would you take a liferaft?

[PaulR 3]

Yes on a Multi. Probably not on my boat though cus its too expensive!

Only takes a multi to cross with a Stewart 34 and that raft looks pretty bloody good!

 

Yes the S34 probably would knot have felt a thing.

 

Your lucky, I'm KNOT doing the coastal this year, so you should be slightly safer.

 

Good Luck

[Guest]

Anyway, what I find intriguing is still the other forum (cruiser oriented and with a strong predominance of live aboard sail away types) is around 40% saying no to the raft. And I don't believe they are being frivolous in the answers. And this concurs with what I observed over the years - the longer you are gone and the further you go the less you feel the need for a raft.

Why such a big difference here?

[PaulR 3]

Would I take one given a choice?? Yes probably.

 

While Evans does put up a reasonable argument it does have flaws. I totally agree that anyone heading into the deep blue should do so with the mind set they are out there by themselves and have to fix whatever at the time so knot having a raft will make sure that happens more often but what about the 'sh*t happens' events.

 

Sailing alone quite happily with no raft... BANG.. a whale takes your keel off or maybe a container off a Rena. It's a catastrophic boat issue. .

 

It's all Lies, don't believe KM when he says "DEEP BLUE".

Was it KM who stated "knot needed for coastal classic".

 

The last whale I hit was between Sail Rock and the Hen and Chickens, just where you will all be sailing TWICE this weekend.

Is 50 meters the deep blue. I don't think so and I know that I'm knot that tall.

 

We went from BLISS in a sunny day to 45 degrees Bow Down cracked keel taking on water in SECONDS in a Farr 12.20. OK then 3 seconds max

 

So we got ready to hop off. Luckly we did not have to and made it to Kawau. Thanks Coastguard for the 30min radio checks.

Lesson learned: DON'T READ WHALING BOOKS ABOUT NORTHLAND WRITTEN 40 YEARS AGO AND START PONDERING ABOUT THE BIG INCREASE IN WHALES, BOTH AT KAIKOURA AND UP THIS WAY.

 

Current Score:

Paul 2 (Atlantic & Pacific) vs Whales NIL

 

Long may it remain so.

[Bimini Babe 0]

the longer you are gone and the further you go the less you feel the need for a raft.

Maybe that's the problem. Too long and too far staring at an expensive, bulky lump of stuff taking up valuable room in your boat, not to mention valuable cruising funds each year in servicing, never getting used. Not like EPIRBs that last a good 7 years and only cost a few hundred bucks and hardly take up any space. Or an SSB that can be put to use every day. A liferaft is something that you would genuinely hope would be utterly useless 100% of the time. And it's a lot of money and space for something that never gets used.

 

But when you do need it...........

[PaulR 3]

the longer you are gone and the further you go the less you feel the need for a raft.

Why such a big difference here?

 

Yes and a lot of that cruising is in warmer and relativele stable continental climates. A 100 or 200 nm mile voyage is a big trip to many of them.

 

Here it is 1,000 nm to the nearest port and it is the BIG DEEP STORMY ocean around NZ with constantly changing weather systems, whereas other places have continental weather patterns that are more stable.

 

Ask that Met Ambassador Bob McD. The stream of highs and lows from Australia makes out little bit of the world quite different, especially for the US based types.

[wheels 543]

(cruiser oriented and with a strong predominance of live aboard sail away types) is around 40% saying no to the raft.

Remember that 40% of the members of that Forum actually do that. The others just dream of it.

Why such a big difference here?

We have a greater appreciation for the wehter and sea here in NZ. We go out in Sea conditions most of the rest of the World would not, because if we didn't, we would never go sailing. Many overseas reef down and head for home in anything greater than 15kts

Team Wheels has the best sailing at 18-25Kts and often wonders if anything below that ever exists:wink: . At 50Kts, Pete Wedderell yawns and decides to go for a sail in the middle of Cook Stait:wink: Our Taurang friends sail in places even big ships can't always handle In 4-5m Surf, BBay likes to pop out through the breakwater for a quick sail and a surf on the way back in. Wellywooders take a "lively jaunt" across Karori Rip, Tahwhiti Rip and Cookstrait to get to an overnight bay in the Sounds and then pop back home again the next day. The couple of "real Bloke" sailors we have here from Invergiggle, consider a 5M swell in Fauvaux as dead flat calm and last time it was just 3m was a Wednesday afternoon back in 1966.

[ex TL systems 63]

i would take a "liferaft" but prefer it to be a modified rib type inflatable tender say 3.1m or more with a strong removeable canopy small outboard and ability to sail a little may be even with a small inflatable rescue orange kitesurf kite to sail and make it easy to be spotted. Pretty sure others have modified tenders to comply as a liferaft for cat 1 before. Makes sense to have something strong that is used regularly and you could actually get somewhere in it if you had to, rather than a liferaft that may or may not work when its needed. Maybe someone in nz should be making something to suit as an alternative to a raft.

[Grinna 2]

I think its dangerous to read so much into the results from that other forum. Some of the members of that forum are cruising on lakes and places like the ICW, many of them are on smaller yachts, some of them follow the example of the likes of Beth and Evans or the Pardeys, some of them live on boats tied to docks and call themselves cruisers. We tend to be a different type of critter here.

 

I think this forum is a little different in that there's a strong racing background for most of the members here, our weather and sea conditions are a little more interesting (as has been noted) and we're also programmed to an extent into accepting that a liferaft is required by the Cat 1/2/3 requirements .... its not really optional.

 

I guess its kinda like asking would you take a parachute with you when you fly in an aircraft. They're bulky, expensive, may not open properly (especially if you've never used one before), have to be packed correctly, etc. I'm sure most people would think "yeah, I'd take a parachute" but never give it another thought when they happily climb onto a 25 year old commercial airliner to fly across the Tasman for their holiday.

 

For me, there's no real question. We've got a liferaft, we have to have one for Cat 1, our boat is of a size that the bulk or weight of the presence of the liferaft is neither here nor there. I don't ever want to need it (but then again, I don't ever want to need a seatbelt in a car) and I guess if I ever go to deploy it and it doesn't inflate I'll curse the damned thing and go to Plan D/E/F whatever.

 

Personally, I don't mind if you have a think about it and seriously consider the implications of it all and decide that you'd rather not carry a liferaft ..... your choice. But then again, I get the impression that Squid would be happiest in a boat without many of the modern "essentials".

[Jon 360]

Your almost Robinson Crusoe on this one Squid

 

The reality is not taking one isn't a option here anymore so everyone thinks that it's a given

 

A better option is a dinghy as described above or there was someone with a system of floatation bags to support the boat which would be much more stable and you would still have all you supplies

[Steve Pope 243]

There are purpose built life boats (Portland Pudgy for one) A bit fugly but definitely wouldn't have any failing glue lines. It doubles as a tender.

I have seen several world cruisers with their own take / version of a solid life boat all were well thought out and would far exceed anything that an inflateable raft has to offer. Inflateable rafts are designed to stay in situ and cannot be sailed, rowed etc. Whereas a pudgy or equivalent can be sailed or rowed. Not all abandonments / sinkings take place in the middle of nowhere, most are within reach of land, the inflateable is at the whim of the currents, the life boat can get you safely ashore.

Have you ever seen a demo of a raft being launched other than in calm water

(swimming pool for example) I havn't. They have a tendancy to fly like a balloon if the wind catches them before the keel bags fill up. they can roll along like a car tube with the people inside untill the folk are thrown out and then they can become a balloon again. Just think of JH's experience with their new Zodiac, the bottom became unstuck. How or why doesn't matter, the fact it did shows the fragility and actual unsuitability of inflateables for the purpose they are designed for. Which was aircraft crashes, light weight, compact, and the flight control people generally have a fair idea of where the plane went down, so rescue is done in a relatively timely manner.

[Jon 360]

While were talking life rafts

 

Flares!!!

 

WTF

name one other product boating or otherwise that hasn't improved over the last 25 years

 

They lasted 3 years then

I've spent $100 per year average for 25 years on the things and they still expire at the same rate and I've yet to fire on in anger ??.

 

With VHF eprib and all the other acronyms shouldn't this be looked at ?

[Bimini Babe 0]

We go out in Sea conditions most of the rest of the World would not

Meh. You guys have got it easy here. Try the North of Scotland sometime.

[PaulR 3]

name one other product boating or otherwise that hasn't improved over the last 25 years

 

Oars.

 

Was that one or two?

 

Paddle.

 

Two sooo toooo good to miss that opportunity.

 

But otherwise it is hard. Even boat hooks come in sharp or blunt points.

[PaulR 3]

Have you ever seen a demo of a raft being launched other than in calm water (swimming pool for example) I havn't. quote]

 

The Sea Survival course used Mt Albert Wave Pool, that generates a 1m wave that makes a more realalistic (?) situation and it makes it harder to get into the raft as well.

 

Well worth doing that course especially the wave pool part.

[Jon 360]

name one other product boating or otherwise that hasn't improved over the last 25 years

 

Oars.

 

Was that one or two?

 

Paddle.

 

Two sooo toooo good to miss that opportunity.

 

But otherwise it is hard. Even boat hooks come in sharp or blunt points.

 

But at least they don't have an expiry date stamped on them

[PaulR 3]

I agree with Steve Pope. Having a decent dinghy that can be moved is better than bobbing around waiting, unable to move. So adding a EPIRB (or tying yachts one onto dinghy) would be better.

 

I would suggest adding in one of Safety At Seas small single ring liferaft to the built in safety gear locker would be very sensible as well.

 

Eventually when one arrives at solid land, my reckoning would be 80% of it is rocky solid sharp stuff, not the clean white sandy calm bays found mainly in movies / TV survivor over sensationalised scenes.

However, Bo Derek definately scored a "10" when she walked along just such a beach

[PaulR 3]

Bo was knot date stamped, as far as I could tell, either

[Grinna 2]

Bo was knot date stamped, as far as I could tell, either

 

That probably wouldn't stop you from turning her upside down and trying to check her date though

[PaulR 3]

I wasn't counting her teeth.

[idlerboat 116]

No question for me.

I bought a new full offshore one when I launched the boat. It is certifyed for three plus three years included in the cost.

I hope to never have to use it (of course) but would never forgive myself if i had to explain to my partner and except the fact myself that the boat was going down and there was no other option...