Guest Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Here is the opening post and the first (of many) replies to a thread on the SSCA forum, I'm curious as to how you lot see it. There seems to be a movement, due perhaps to the war on terrorism, toward restricting people's mobility. For example, I know many people who no longer wish to fly commercially if it can be avoided. From this forum and others, I get the impression that cruisers face a tightening bureaucratic net -- fees and regulations -- whose purpose seems to be to discourage freedom of navigation. My question is addressed to folks who are currently out there, doin' it: do you feel that the days of offshore cruising are coming to an end? We started cruising in 1992 and moved ashore last year. Cruising red tape and fees have grown considerably over that time. Part of it is anti-terrorism, part of it is the increase in the number of cruisers and governments looking for revenue sources (and falsely seeing cruisers as as people with deep pockets), part of it is just technology that, because communications is more available it is expected. The fees are so bad entering Australia that we chose to fly there from NZ for a couple of weeks rather than cruise there. The fees to visit St. Martin have become prohibitive. When I stayed there for a few months in 1995 there was definite anti cruiser hostility from the government, now they only want megayachts. Crime and poor marine businesses in Trinidad made me vow never to return there. From 1994 to 2007 the place went dramatically down hill as a cruisers haven. That said, there are still a few bright spots to cruise. The South Pacific and New Zealand are still great. First visit 1996-7, second visit 2007-10. I would not be surprised if people that cruised 20 years before we did would say the same about our time frame. After nearly 20 years of cruising and over 125,000 sea miles it wasn't much fun anymore. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Rumor is that the French in Tahiti want all cruisers to have medical insurance.My guess is they mean all non EU cruisers. Link to post Share on other sites
Bimini Babe 0 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 ....... and yet every year there are people like me taking it up who have no past experience to compare with, so have no idea whether it's more difficult to expensive than it used to be. I guess we rely on a certain amount of attrition to prevent all those lovely cruising spots from becoming over crowded. So please, carry on whinging about how bad cruising's got, but do it from the comfort of your own home ay? Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Yes, it is getting more difficult, and expensive. Unfortuanately many places are still of the opinion that Cruisers are wealthy. Some, as mentioned, only want superyachts (the Maldives is one). Corruption is an issue in many places, but I guess that has always been. Officialdom is getting worse. For example, Singapore. I could take the boat there from NZ, but was not allowed to leave the marina, except to leave Singapore, without a LOCAL boatmaster test/certificate. Despite having a Yachtmaster ticket. And get this - they insisit on the local ticket being for a power vessel! Officials have been a pain, and often dishonest. Been threatened with Jail twice so far... and I'm trying to do everything the right way, unlike some. If you want to go cruising, go now! It's definitely more costly than it was in the past, and not just normal price increases over the years.. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 You have to be a little like Megwyn and have a certain nievity to the way it is out there and just go do it. There are still places that are cheap. It's just where you go is all. It has always been expensive in some places and it has always been dangerous in some places. And in many places, it has actually become safer now. It is all in how you look at it. Squid, you just have to have a Dream (which you have) and a Plan (which you are working on) and bring the two together and go. Because even though we hear these stories of costs, taxes, corruption and being shot at, the reality is that many just like us are out there doing it and making it work for them. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Mexico is still fairly good.If you are lucky you can enter and leave for US$50 each.But if you get unlucky they can make you buy insurance,temp import permit,fishing license and who knows what.Lat 38 reckons they are cleaning up the Ensenada officials.Yeah,right. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 ........ For example, Singapore. I could take the boat there from NZ, but was not allowed to leave the marina, except to leave Singapore, without a LOCAL boatmaster test/certificate. Despite having a Yachtmaster ticket. And get this - they insisit on the local ticket being for a power vessel!Officials have been a pain, and often dishonest. Been threatened with Jail twice so far... and I'm trying to do everything the right way, unlike some. .......... I lived in Singapore from 1974 to 1978. We had a little ketch built in Hong Kong and cruised extensively on the Malaysian east coast, Borneo, Sumatra and Java. Transiting by yacht through Indonesia was possible at the time but, since WW2, continuing friction in the region ( Indonesian Independence, the Malayan Communist emergency, and then Konfrontasi) meant that cruising from Singapore to Indonesia (i.e. local cruising) was not allowed. However, in 1975, we received the first Indonesian cruising permit to do so. Because of my various former roles in NZ yachting administration, I was invited by the Singapore Yachting Association to meet with the Singapore Harbour master, Captain Tan, to discuss proposals for boating regulations and licensing (aka revenue collecting). I suggested to that they might like to adopt the safety regulations (Cats 1,2,3 etc) which had only recently been introduced in Australian and NZ after much thought and consultation. But this worthy Master Mariner was not going to listen to a mere yachtsman, especially one some 20 years his junior. He came up with British Board of Trade 1888 small craft regulations which some former colonial administrator had thoughtfully filed in his office, and promulgated these as the new Singapore Boating Regulations. Thus we were required to not only have heavy cork life rings (which, if you throw them at a drowning man, will probably brain him) but also, because we had a diesel (i.e. oil) engine, had to have a bucket of sand ready to throw over any oil spills. Try as a might, I could not convince the Captain that a bucket of sand is not particularly useful on a tippy sailboat. As you will have found, Island Time, it is all a matter of face! Link to post Share on other sites
Megwyn 2 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 You have to be a little like Megwyn and have a certain nievity to the way it is out there and just go do it. You think I am naive? Bugger - thought those days were behind me Wow - I would love to just go out there and do it, but he who mows the lawns is so much more reticent than me. Mind you - it was his father that capsized and lost his new catamaran in rough weather coming back from Mayor Island when he was a kid. And I know that the idea of 6-8 meter seas scares him enough to put him off for life. Hey don't get me wrong - 6-8 meters seas scares the brown stuff out of me too. And if you sail out there enough odds are you will encounter it at some stage. Interesting question for you David. In all your years of sailing out there in the deep stuff, how often have you been caught in nasty weather like they are experiencing now in the RNZ? M Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Yes, it is getting more difficult, and expensive. Unfortuanately many places are still of the opinion that Cruisers are wealthy. But a lot are IT. Sure many aren't but I know a few US boats who are cruzing on a very tight budget of only US$45K a year, which they call bare bones. A couple of Italian ones above that and one Aussie working on A$1000 a week. We have noticed quite an increase in wealthy cruisers. Very few NZers but a lot out of the US and EU. So the discussion should be more along the lines of - while many, possibly most, cruisers aren't wealthy maybe the assorted destinations are seeing more wealthy cruisers, some very, and then assuming all cruisers have the same sized wallet. The world cruising fleet is a LOT larger today then it was 20 years ago. Both in boat size, numbers of them and wants so the locals see bigger and more of them wanting flasher hence it's probably knot hard for them to translate that into bigger bucks. Knot to sure anyone would expect a major port like Singapore to be a budget operation. One could counter that and say cruzing is cheap as chips as we just spend a month in Kiribati and all the officialdom wanted was $100 and we could buy a weeks worth of veg for $15, fresh Tuna for $1.20kg and a endangered Green Turtle for only $0.80 a kg (which you can, or could 2 years ago). Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 David me or David L? For me the answer is once or twice. Once at sea not far from where they are now. Once in the Gulf of Tehuantepec, Closer to land so smaller seas, but big underlying current so steep and nasty. Twice at anchor. Link to post Share on other sites
Megwyn 2 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Thanks David - I did mean you - but the other David also has much experience and his input would be interesting too. So over how many years would those 4 experiences been? M Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 This is embarrassing, nearly 40.Started sailing dinghies around 7 or 8, first offshore at 17, now about to hit 56. Last count well over 100,000 sea miles. So big storms, while serious, aren't frequent. Link to post Share on other sites
Bimini Babe 0 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 You have to be a little like Megwyn and have a certain nievity to the way it is out there and just go do it. There are still places that are cheap. It's just where you go is all. It has always been expensive in some places and it has always been dangerous in some places. And in many places, it has actually become safer now. It is all in how you look at it. Squid, you just have to have a Dream (which you have) and a Plan (which you are working on) and bring the two together and go. Because even though we hear these stories of costs, taxes, corruption and being shot at, the reality is that many just like us are out there doing it and making it work for them. I did wonder if he meant me actually - I was going to take minor offence to being called Megwyn AND naive in the same sentence! Seems to me like cruisers have this attitude that it is their God-given RIGHT to cruise anywhere in the world cheaply. But nobody bitches and moans about the fact that only the rich and famous can holiday on the Cote D'Azur now do they? You kind of just accept it as fact. I understand that some parts of the world are now 'milking' cruisers because of a, perhaps misinformed, view that we are all well-off. But I'm sure there are still plenty of other places where you can cruise on a shoestring, and there always will be. If I was going to go backpacking on a budget, I sure as hell wouldn't chose somewhere like Scandinavia now would I? I'd probably choose somewhere like Asia or South America where my money would go much further. Link to post Share on other sites
darkside 61 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 BB good call about some cruisers expecting everything to be cheap, just because it is someplace else. Each country gets to charge what they like. It is up to the cruiser to decide what they are prepared to put up with. If they don't want to pay just move on. We went ten years ago now. From what I observe the main thing that has changed is the escalation in Piracy, which means that you have to go a different way. The new taxes in Italy and Greece are a shame, so you would spend less time there. You can avoid a lot of the charges with a bit of common sense and a good anchor. In the Maddalenas they collect the anchoring fee about 5pm. So you up anchor and go for a sail for a couple of hours at 4pm, and pay no fee. Be aware that there are a some terrible moaners in the cruising fleet, and they are the loudest and most often heard on the cruiser nets. Go and see for yourself, get off the beaten track and smile a lot when you meet officials. Back to the first post not many people would want to cruise that long. The magic of discovery would have died and those great friends you met at the start would have moved on. Also most would have a lot less money to spend compared to the average cruiser than when they started which would fuel the resentment. Link to post Share on other sites
Megwyn 2 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I did wonder if he meant me actually - I was going to take minor offense to being called Megwyn AND naive in the same sentence! I wondered that too! It must be easy to get us gals confused though Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Oh my, yes I made a mistake with who I was quoting. I was indeed meaning B Babes post. So sorry megwyn. Now, why on earth did I have your name in my mind Link to post Share on other sites
Megwyn 2 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Now, why on earth did I have your name in my mind I don't know Wheels - perhaps . . . no . . . Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Sounds like some people think its ok for EQIS? to charge A$330 to enter Australia.Say......why dont DOC start charging that for boats to enter NZ? Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Perhaps not DOC, but maybe if MAF did, we wouldn't have so many introduced pests. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Or not. We might have fewer boats and DOC might think they were making money but they wouldn't be due to low traffic numbers - isn't that how taxes normally work? Link to post Share on other sites
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