Insurance!@#$%

[Guest]

I was being nice to the multi's by saying they race more.

Markm, as always weighs in with the facts.

Don't disagree with what you are saying Mr Wolf, especially as far as how long the cover is available for all racing.

 

In the UK we used to be able to get insurance to go Skiing that covered equipment as well.

I went for a week with a group of about 10 people. At least 1/2 had a claim of some sort.

They were all genuine breakages as well.

I got a pair of skis replaced that a mate had given me, ex rental fully raced/rallied and rolled.

Insurance paid out no question.

 

2 years later it wasn't available anymore. No surprises there.

[Guest]

Don't disagree with what you are saying Mr Wolf, especially as far as how long the cover is available for all racing.

Me too as does my Insurance bloke.

 

Our insurances came up for renewal again recently and I asked my dude about racing cover and he reckons he's seen nothing to suggest monos will have any issues unless they are a 100% race boat. The racer/cruisers and occasional racers should be fine for a least a long while. He said I'd have a slight heart attack at the cost of insuring my TP52.

 

I've got full racing cover and it added about $100 to the bill. Mind you my total bill was close to 10K for the year and the boat's tucked away in the middle of that somewhere, which may reduce the premium. The price for my boat this year was actually $25 less than last year.

 

What he suggests we will see starting to happen and it is a little already, it that the 'race' (talking more monos here) portion of any policy will be cranked up in both premiums and excess's. As that happens more will drop out which will raise them more, smaller pool, to it gets to a point bugger all can afford it and due to no sales it'll be dropped as an option. This will start with 'general' insurance companies and work it's way thru to the more specialist ones.

 

But he also said anyone can insure anything today......... if they are willing to pay. The more obscure the more the cost obviously.

 

I asked about Multis out of interest and he said no worries to get that today ........ but at a cost most aren't willing to pay or that high it's pointless and usually with 'silly' (his words) restrictions. He said he does struggle a bit with what's happening here with the Timberwolfs and the like but also said it's all driven by offshore underwriters and the locals have little choice or flexibility.

 

They are a commercial marine insurance specialist. Our work insurance explains the rather large bill by the way, knot my boating skills and/or track record

[ScottiE 174]

Our work insurance explains the rather large bill by the way, knot my boating skills and/or track record

 

I told ya before - you gotta stop stabbing your staff with the fids when they don't get the milk 'n suger just so!

[Guest]

The nz motor caravan association have a group insurance scheme where about 9000 members get (good/customised) insurance. I joined up for the insurance and other benefits (cheap ferries etc) and pay less than 1/3 of what any other insurer quoted me for my campervan.

 

The ´covi.co.nz' website say they have paid out 3.5million in the last 3 years ($130/member). If we were able to review what value of local boat claims have been made (and would have been made for any 'uninsured' local accidents) over a time period versus how many multi/mono members could be in a group scheme then it might be worthwhile looking into (??).

 

I am sure even people with rarely used and/or not raced boats would go into a scheme if it saved money. And, in numbers, repairers can be negotiated with to reduce repair costs and liability to the group + start lines/racing could be organised in a way that reduces risk.

 

Apart from the obvious water/land differences, campervans and boats have a lot in common. Lots are rarely used, parked up and secure, and the ones in use are a high risk on the road, parking, camping, fire, damage etc and very expensive to fix if damaged.

[MrWolf 0]

Don't disagree with what you are saying Mr Wolf, especially as far as how long the cover is available for all racing.

Me too as does my Insurance bloke.

 

Our insurances came up for renewal again recently and I asked my dude about racing cover and he reckons he's seen nothing to suggest monos will have any issues unless they are a 100% race boat. The racer/cruisers and occasional racers should be fine for a least a long while. He said I'd have a slight heart attack at the cost of insuring my TP52.

 

I've got full racing cover and it added about $100 to the bill. Mind you my total bill was close to 10K for the year and the boat's tucked away in the middle of that somewhere, which may reduce the premium. The price for my boat this year was actually $25 less than last year.

 

What he suggests we will see starting to happen and it is a little already, it that the 'race' (talking more monos here) portion of any policy will be cranked up in both premiums and excess's. As that happens more will drop out which will raise them more, smaller pool, to it gets to a point bugger all can afford it and due to no sales it'll be dropped as an option. This will start with 'general' insurance companies and work it's way thru to the more specialist ones.

 

But he also said anyone can insure anything today......... if they are willing to pay. The more obscure the more the cost obviously.

 

I asked about Multis out of interest and he said no worries to get that today ........ but at a cost most aren't willing to pay or that high it's pointless and usually with 'silly' (his words) restrictions. He said he does struggle a bit with what's happening here with the Timberwolfs and the like but also said it's all driven by offshore underwriters and the locals have little choice or flexibility.

 

They are a commercial marine insurance specialist. Our work insurance explains the rather large bill by the way, knot my boating skills and/or track record

 

 

One example I heard of was to insure a 50' for 1.2mil for the Sydney Hobart is $30k but insurance is compulsory !

[Guest]

So much for the "the cost isn't the problem" brigade.

[Guest]

The nz motor caravan association have a group insurance scheme where about 9000 members get (good/customised) insurance. I joined up for the insurance and other benefits (cheap ferries etc) and pay less than 1/3 of what any other insurer quoted me for my campervan.

 

The ´covi.co.nz' website say they have paid out 3.5million in the last 3 years ($130/member). If we were able to review what value of local boat claims have been made (and would have been made for any 'uninsured' local accidents) over a time period versus how many multi/mono members could be in a group scheme then it might be worthwhile looking into (??).

 

I am sure even people with rarely used and/or not raced boats would go into a scheme if it saved money. And, in numbers, repairers can be negotiated with to reduce repair costs and liability to the group + start lines/racing could be organised in a way that reduces risk.

 

Apart from the obvious water/land differences, campervans and boats have a lot in common. Lots are rarely used, parked up and secure, and the ones in use are a high risk on the road, parking, camping, fire, damage etc and very expensive to fix if damaged.

And this facility is about to crushing down, as there was simple case of someone putting together a gruop package for not much money that provided real good cover, hell I even told my clients to use it, and thats turning money away, but the product is that good. The problem is because it covers so much with little premium and small excess it does nothing to shift any responsiblity of sharing in the risk on the clients behalf, this then has an effect of people thinking oh well don';t matter I'm insured I will just make the claim, If the premium was more and excess were higher then joe client would be thinking, how can I ensure that I stay a good risk. Cheap premiums + Small excess = loats of small claims deminishing an already small premium pool. I'ts just simple math.

[Guest]

But he also said anyone can insure anything today......... if they are willing to pay. The more obscure the more the cost obviously.

 

Sadly Knot the case anymore, Insurance companies in NZ deal in reinsurance and the treatys that they sign have more and more restrictions on what types of risks to write, as previous performance of certain portfolios have given shareholders a fright and returns to them are not as nice as they would like. Insurance companies need to make profit. No profit then no claims paid it is as simple as that, there are many risks that can not be insured these days that a few years ago there was always an insurer that would do so, but of course, with not much expertise and very little premium charged those companies that did not perform have dissapeared or been swallowed up by larger ones.

[MrWolf 0]

a group scheme on a massive scale is certainly the right way forward.

[Guest]

a group scheme on a massive scale is certainly the right way forward.

 

Some times it is, however most in the past, and there are numerous of them have failed as they have not been managed that well. Most group schemes are put together by the broker and then presented to an insurer, and then the negotiation around wording and pricing starts, The difficult thing on pricing is who do you rate it on. The worst risk or the best risk.

 

My own personal feeling, and not just because I am a broker is I would sooner pay for a product based my my own performance, If I am a good risk I will be rewarded, If I am in some scheme and Joe Smith (sorry Mr Smith I don't mean you) makes numerous claims I pay the price for that as well, It is a sad reality of how these facilitys work.

 

Don't get me wrong there are some out there that are working quite well and the Customer, Broker and Insurer are very happy, but as they say you are only 1 claim away from disaster.

[ScottiE 174]

My own personal feeling, and not just because I am a broker is I would sooner pay for a product based my my own performance, If I am a good risk I will be rewarded, If I am in some scheme and Joe Smith (sorry Mr Smith I don't mean you) makes numerous claims I pay the price for that as well, It is a sad reality of how these facilitys work.

 

but hasn't the multihull insurance market just reduced to everyone paying for Monsieur Smith's numerous claims anyway?

[Guest]

My own personal feeling, and not just because I am a broker is I would sooner pay for a product based my my own performance, If I am a good risk I will be rewarded, If I am in some scheme and Joe Smith (sorry Mr Smith I don't mean you) makes numerous claims I pay the price for that as well, It is a sad reality of how these facilitys work.

 

but hasn't the multihull insurance market just reduced to everyone paying for Monsieur Smith's numerous claims anyway?

 

Not sure on that, but it's fair to say Insurers do see them as a higher risk, so rather than underwrite the risk, it is the easy fix for them to just not write it at all. Unfortunatley that does not help you, but hey it's their ball and they get to make the rules and pick the players

[Guest]

One example I heard of was to insure a 50' for 1.2mil for the Sydney Hobart is $30k but insurance is compulsory !

 

In a word Holy Shite! That's one hell of a nasty number for 3 or 4 days of yachting.

 

Starting to see a few comments along the lines of 'Knot going, can't afford the insurance'. A fair few coming out of the US as well.

[BelowPAR 0]

Give me 30K today, and i will pay out a million if you sink... hmm

Were there 100 boats in the last race? So thats 3mill in premiums (exagerated). so if each boat is worth what half a mill? (also exagerated), the insurer breaks even if less then 6 boats sink (if the two variables on opposite sides of the equation are exagerated, then the answer should be right, right )...

They should be getting Mr Clouds to set their premiums

[Guest]

I got a quote today that was 50% extra for racing cover.

[Guest]

To step up from total cover to include full racing cover cost me an extra $100 on a 60K agreed price. Excess's stayed the same except for the rig, knot sails, which went from 500 to 2500 if it's a racing incident. Off the top of my head that's an extra 30% odd on the premium.

 

My boats worth more dead than alive....... and you better remember it'll only cost me 5 hundy to disappear you next time you play up ya sometimes stroppy bitch

[ScottiE 174]

KM did anyone tell ya you have such a wonderful way with wordz!

[Guest]

OK, from what you posted KM I need to keep looking.

My quote was $240 more for racing cover and I haven't seen the fine print yet.

I'll take the standard advice and contact the advertisers here.

[Guest]

OK, from what you posted KM I need to keep looking.

My quote was $240 more for racing cover and I haven't seen the fine print yet.

I'll take the standard advice and contact the advertisers here.

 

Phone Aaron himself, go straight to the man, If he cannot help then you will have to use your broker

[Guest]

OK, from what you posted KM I need to keep looking.

My quote was $240 more for racing cover and I haven't seen the fine print yet.

I'll take the standard advice and contact the advertisers here.

 

Don't forget my insurance bill is around 10K a year and the boats tucked in there somewhere so that probably has some influence on the price and/or package.

 

Talk to Aaron, he knows his game well.