Jump to content

category 1 or not


Guest

Recommended Posts

Fossil, a question if I may.

 

How much wiggle room do the Inspectors have?

 

By that I mean and picking a semi-random example - if I set off into the deep blue by myself in a well found vessel, can a Inspector OK me for Cat 1 if I don't have a Dan buoy for example? Obviously I'm going to find it bloody hard to chuck it to myself if I'm already swimming so it's a pretty useless item to have to carry.

 

I have read the Inspectors 'guide', for lack of the real word I've since forgotten and from reading that it does appear some items do seem to be discretionary rather than compulsory many boaties seem to think they are. I did also read the bit where it says if any Inspector OK's a boat and then it goes real bad the Inspector will be asked 'why did you let them go/do/change whatever?'. So I do understand you guys are sort of stuck between a rock (bitching boat owner screaming poverty) and hard place (a bitching MSA enquiry or worse, trial by media) often. I can also see the Inspectors would have to tread a tight line in areas where if they OK something a bit different on one boat they could easily get other boats saying 'You let Rangi go without a XXX, why knot me?'

 

Personally I've never meet an unreasonable Inspector and found everyone I've had dealings with both very helpful and quite pragmatic, nothing wrong about that at all. One I chat to often is a mountain of good info and advise, having been there done that and seen a gazillion different boats preping to set off over the years. Knowledge like that you can't find in books.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah Knot Me we can use a bit of discretion although I have had my wrist slapped over life buoys and dan buoys for single handers. The argument being "He may pick up extra crew to come home" The argument that the Cat one is voided at the first port is apparently contentious.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to opt out of the safety net ( reminicent of Eric Hiscock, Bill Tillman, et al) by signing a release form.

 

"We hereby release the NZ government and taxpayers from any responsibily for our wellbeing, safety, and/or survival "

 

It would save the taxpayer thousands, ney millions, and release those of us who want some freedom of

choice from the manacles of the nanny state.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The next cruising boat is still a ways off, but we discuss it regularly, and just this week we talked of building in Oz, and the $$$$ saved by not needing cat one was considered.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fossil, would you happen to be John Evans?? :wave:

 

I am still not sure just what is so hard about Cat 1, or perhaps should i say, what gear people do not want to take with them. Sure it seems pointless to take a MOB pole when on your own. But then again, they are not an expensive item and I don't see the point in the argument against. All the safety requirments are, in my view, fairly obvious and make for what is called "a well found boat".

The only issues I have are those that step outside the normal bounds of personal safety and ask for specifics about the boat iteself. Light righting moment figures and all those features. I had also been told it was very hard to get a Ferro accepted for Cat1. Although that maybe more the fact that some of the older Ferros were not in much of a fit shape to meet Cat1 anyway.

 

So if we made a list of the things people seem to not want to carry.

EPIRB

MOB

Liferaft

what else???

Link to post
Share on other sites
Fossil, would you happen to be John Evans?? :wave:

 

John Lidgard

 

I'm with you wheels

I would take these things the problem is most don't know the limitations of them.

And I'm starting to get pissed off about the numbers of abandonment , isn't true seamanship getting the boat to port using what it takes ?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm, well yes. But I guess it has to be looked at from the other point of view too. Just as those that have the view that they should have the right to go to Sea without some group imposing regulations on them, I guess you have to say that there are ones that believe they also have the same right to go to Sea and have a "right" that they will survive the Journey, even if it all goes to custard.

Even members here have made statments in the past that those that can not handle the Boat and get it home in any situation, should not go to Sea at all. But then, you have to be scrutinised by someone to see if you actually have that level of skill. So one argument actually ends up creating the other, that no one actually wanted because of the first argument.

With yacht racing Cat 1 requirements, you most likely have a number of crew that has a right to partcipate in a race with a certain expectation of safety and that they will return home again alive and well. Situations like Squids, where he takes full responsibilty for himself and his own family and says, well if we all perish, that is our problem, are not so common. But yes they do exist. Interestingly though, I just wonder here, but if a situation occured that Squid loses a member or all of his Family and he survives, would he be liable for some charge like maybe Manslaughter due to not taking precuations. I mean, it could be argued that he had a reckless attitude to the safety of his Family. (Sorry Squid, just an example for discussion mate. Not actually aiming anything directly at you. Just thought it could be an interesting view point)

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

So if we made a list of the things people seem to not want to carry.

EPIRB

MOB

Liferaft

what else???

 

I would take a gpirb, but not a SSB radio, would consider a satphone if my wife weren't with me at the time. If I was happy with the alternative available I would have no problem ditching the raft. And we have mentioned the med kit.

Right there I have saved over 10k. Yet none of those decisions would be predicated on the money, they would be decisions I'd make anyway.

 

 

Again - anyone know the history of how cruisers came to be included, we are the only nation on the planet that does this?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah Knot Me we can use a bit of discretion although I have had my wrist slapped over life buoys and dan buoys for single handers. The argument being "He may pick up extra crew to come home" The argument that the Cat one is voided at the first port is apparently contentious.

 

You can only laugh at the thinking sometimes.

 

But then after a long solo the chances are an Island Princess or 2 could be in the sites, so they may have a point :lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I can tell many of the requirements for Cat 1 are reasonably sensible. The trap is though that people strap gear onto their boat and think that they are now safe because of that gear. Unfortunately, you can't buy skills and adding safety gear doesn't offset poor decision making, lack of experience or any other shortcomings in the squidgy organic part of the whole equation.

 

As a f'rinstance ..... there's a thread on here about flares. We're all required to have them and carry them but most people wouldn't have a clue how to operate their flares without first sitting down for 5 minutes and working out how to fire them (embarassingly, myself included). When they're needed you won't really have a quiet 5 minutes to read the instructions. Just having the flares onboard makes people feel safer, but if they don't know how to use them the reality is you might as well not have them at all ... and the boat would therefore be safer for not havign pyrotechnics onboard.

 

There's also an assumption that firing a flare will result in someone galloping along to pull you to safety. Fire the flare if necessary, but don't assume the world will drop what its doing and come get you. Ultimately its up to every individual to look after their own ass and to save yourself. That's part of the appeal of cruising.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Right there I have saved over 10k

Well yes and no. I bought an SSB that fits all the requirements. It cost me $150. Sat phone is a great idea and correct me if I am wrong, but i think they allow that over an SSB now. However, Satphone is more expensive that an SSB. Liferafts come up all the time for around a $1K. But you can rent, get to your first port of call and then send it home.

Med Kit would be the difficult one. But how much are they???

Grinna, part of the "inspection" is the inspector is also inspecting or "testing" the crew at the same time. As he checks off the list, he is supposed to ask questions so he can gain some understanding of your level of knowledge and skill. it is not a straight out test of course, it is subtle questions that your description will reveal to him just how capable you are. A very good example is, Demonstrate your idea for an emergency steering device. That shows him that you are not just repeating something have read about using a door for a rudder, but demonstrates that you understand all the issues involved and that you actually unbderstand certain basic principles of boat handling and dealing with a situation.

Re flares, flares are not JUST for rescue. They are also important in communication and people often fail to understand that. I have heard many reports of people not raising communication with Ships in the night and they let of a Handflare to let the ship know they are there and have seen the ship alter course.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Did anyone watch Mat Watson's ITM fishing show awards last Sunday?? I forget that TV reporter that is a bit if a comedian.You see him doing spoof Sports interviews and he also did a few adds for Hella Susages. Anyway, he made this report about boating. He said it was a good idea to do what he does and call a Mayday at the beginning of each trip. That way all the search and rescue organisations are in gear and that will save time if it all goes wrong and if the day goes well, you can then just cancel the Mayday again.

Of course, he says it all with a completely straight and serious face.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wheels I do understand that an inspector is assessing the skipper and his crew as the inspection is progressing. Simple things like, "how well organised is the skipper?" will go a long way to giving the inspector confidence in signing off on the Cat 1 status.

 

Category 1 is supposed to be a minimum standard of preparation, but just having a liferaft doesn't mean you know how to deploy it. A smart skipper will make sure that there is that level of familiarity with the equipment on board, but as we know not all skippers are that smart or that well prepared and an inspector is not going to get a skipper or crew to demonstrate a working knowledge of all the safety items on board. Some things are basic and logical, but even the basic can be overlooked.

 

Here's a f'ristance from our boat. When we bought it I started going thru all the safety gear and systems ... just checking it all out and making sure I understood what we had and how it worked. We had a lifebuoy light in a bracket on the pushpit right next to a lifebuoy .... but the light wasn't attached to the lifebuoy, in fact it wasn't tied to anything. It didn't matter that much because it had a blown bulb, dead batteries and a wiring fault that meant it didn't work anyway ... but the boat had a lifebuoy light and that could be ticked off the safety requirement list. How many people periodically test their lifebuoy light (pick it up out of the bracket and tip it up to see if it works)? Not many.

 

Safety gear doesn't necessarily make you safer. Safety gear and the right attitudes, approach and preparation probably do make you safer ... but I think its important to recognise that the right attitude approach and preparation is a big part of that.

 

I don't necessarily have a problem with the Cat 1 requirements, as long as people don't assume they can buy skills and safety and bolt it onto their boat.

Link to post
Share on other sites

David asks if I can recall why and when cruising boats were included in cat one regulations. Sorry David, I can recall conversations from the 1956 Suva race but not from last week. Be nice to an old coot.

Link to post
Share on other sites
David asks if I can recall why and when cruising boats were included in cat one regulations. Sorry David, I can recall conversations from the 1956 Suva race but not from last week. Be nice to an old coot.

Reminds me of that Speights ad: "You can call me old, boy, but you can't call me stupid." :thumbup: :clap:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...