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Climate change.


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Why, should this be so man made and plainly evident to all and sundry should anyone need to impose taxes to get people to tidy their shite up? Or hasn't science proven itself well enough for the vast majority to believe they need get their shite together? Judging by the way a small few are trying to impose all these taxes on to a basically unwilling public I'd say does suggest the majority do knot or have knot been convince the science is correct.

 

I wasnt going to be so harsh...

The use of finacial incentive to change habits (as I said in a previous post) is a well excepted tool.

You will never except that its use is right if you dont agree that there is a problem in the first place.

I of all people hate my libertys being infrigened by financial constraints.. if I do something that I think is quite reasonable, that is ,I dont agree with the powers that be.

That is the problem.

Seat belt laws and the inprint of high tension glass on the frontal lobe is now excepted as science. It was hugely resisted at the time of introdution.

You may now say that the examples are differant, one before the fact and one after....

But the mechanism is the same. The first says dont do it...the second says if you continue to do it....

At this point someone will jump in and say "its not as simple as that"

They are absoultely right.

Riggers example of "un expected consequences is a perfect example"

To even think for a second such a change in global attitude would be without consequences or failures is naive.

The alternative is the "sit on my hands" principal...that also brings in the lucky me "I have covered my arse" principal.

SO

It brings back the fundemental question of is "the shift in global climate change human induced, and if so can we slow the ship from the rocks".....

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...If you had any doubt, even the slightests doubt, wouldnt you steer the ship off shore ?...Would your dead lines be so important as to potenialy endanger your passengers ?

Me, I would rather lose money than that.

Happy to be sacked by the shipping line if I am wrong.

After all most of my charts warn of a danger.

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Here's something I consider scary. I had a conversation last week with a number of young adults (nearly all in their 20's), bright, educated, well informed - should be considered among our best and brightest.

 

They ALL have given up. there was a level of fatalism and cynicism that shocked me. Their attitude was that it is too late already, greed and momentum and political chicanery is too entrenched and nothing is going to change. But since the current course is unsustainable, a big meltdown in western society is coming. We don't know what will trigger it or when it will happen , but it is inevitable. (maybe climate change, maybe economic meltdown, maybe energy crisis, maybe social upheaval eg the occupy movement..........).

 

Every one of them, and they claimed everyone they knew, had or was working on an escape plan, meanwhile trying to exist the best they can until the inevitable.

 

And they told me this was international -hooray for facebook.

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That doesn't surprise me in the slightest Ogre. Just have a look around at all the negative they are exposed to each day. Sure most of the negative isn't actually true but they are the sound bite generation and only hear the 15sec mostly dribble. What's more their parents reinforce that view for pretty much the same reason.

 

The list of stuff that is making news in a very negative fashion at the moment is huge. A lot, most of it often, is total tripe and knot true but as we don't have true journalism any more the real story only rarely comes out.

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Don't agree KM, that generation seldom uses the media for news to start with, and I'm talking some really bright people who have taken the time to investigate and inform themselves, way above your average drongo.

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Woow, that's both sad, defeatist and yet rather weird.

 

If they have sussed hard and still think it's all doom and gloom then I'm sorry but I would call them drongos. They are the the mob who has the ability and nous to change things but if they have all have decided to just give up then I suppose they will reap what they sew. If their generation lets things slide then it will become too late but it's knot to late just yet.

 

So what the hell are we discussing the climate for and why bother trying to change it? Our generation will be dead by the time anything nasty happens and as the next one has given up already, the sooner the earth expels the human virus the better off it'll be.

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Woow, that's both sad, defeatist and yet rather weird.

One of the reasons they're defeatist is vociferous, active, climate change denial. Ring any bells????

How the hell are they supposed to have any hope for a fix when there's an active lobby denying there's a problem.

 

So what the hell are we discussing the climate for and why bother trying to change it? Our generation will be dead by the time anything nasty happens and as the next one has given up already, the sooner the earth expels the human virus the better off it'll be.

And you call THEM defeatist?

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Like I say- these were probably some of the brightest kids in the country. Also it was very apparent they had no faith in the political process whatsoever.

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One of the reasons they're defeatist is vociferous, active, climate change denial. Ring any bells????

How the hell are they supposed to have any hope for a fix when there's an active lobby denying there's a problem?

I only know one person who thinks the climate isn't changing. But he also thinks the dog in Men in Black is genuine so knot to sure he's one you'd want to take great faith in. Someone's going to stop the climate changing? I bet ya they can't.
Like I say- these were probably some of the brightest kids in the country. Also it was very apparent they had no faith in the political process whatsoever.
100% agree with them and have done for years, hence it makes me wonder just what you lot are thinking when you go out of your way to implicitly support that very process every 3 years.

 

Still sad they see life like that when all they are looking at is one very narrow range of the multitude of options available out there. Which is coincidently why I've been telling mine knot to expect a life along the lines of what their parents have/had, which isn't that dissimilar to their grandparents. I do think this generation will see some bigger changes than we have, which were a motherload more than our parents did.

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Yes we are influencing our world. Called the butterfly effect. Better or worse depends on your point of view.

 

The biggest conundrum is to sort out our back yard. Stop people throwing rubbish out their car windows. Do the little things right. Recycling should be everywhere not just at house. When looking at carbon footprint it needs to take in not just running costs but also maintenance, life of equipment, lifetime expectancy, output, etc.

 

Why I struggle to support it is it just seems another money take or transfer and not necessarily what is best for the planet although again that depends on your point of view.

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In there with you on all that gurge.

Recycling should be everywhere not just at house.
And it should start before home. A while back I started a program of leaving any excessive packaging in the establishment selling it and making it well known the packaging is generally to make their life easier so they can dump the rubbish themselves. The 1st time I did it at a Mega10 place the manager got quite shitty but since explaining why they have been quite understanding, as they were again last Saturday. The boss of the local Dicky Smith isn't though, he's a twat. No idea what the boss of Steel and Tube thinks as he never replied to the pile of excess I sent him.

 

What I reckon is better than any ETS will be charging for dumping your rubbish as suggested Akl Super Shitty may bring in. That will hit people harder faster and in a way more visible manner than 27c in their power bill. If that comes in just watch the numbers of people start being packaging concerned. As a FYI, during last Saturdays excess dump at Mega10 the dude told me 'You are one of quite a few who are doing that and the boss has noticed'. No idea what the boss is or isn't going to do though.

 

Whether you believe GCC is man made or knot there is no reason we should have to fill our land with packaging. Especially as a lot of it is shipped to NZ from places far away. Start fighting back by dumping all the crap on the sellers bench and tell them to sort their sh*t out as most of it is unnecessary in the 1st place. If we all did that it would make a big difference fast.

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A while back I started a program of leaving any excessive packaging in the establishment selling it and making it well known the packaging is generally to make their life easier so they can dump the rubbish themselves.

Excellent :mrgreen:

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I cant get a photo of one of the boxes..but I ordered 200 stylis and tethers from USA.

A 3 pack came in a box the size of 3 old phone books.

The whole lot came on a pallet and needed a hoist to get of the truck.

 

The whole lot would fit inside a small black sock.

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Yep the whole recycling thing is a no brainer..

Im lucky in a way because I was brought up with it by parents that still practice it. They were not hippie types either....Mum started washing plastic bags and taken them back to use when the first change from paper to plastic happened in the shops. She asked a simple question and was horrifyed with the anwser....

"well thats not going to work in the long run is it"

I grew up having to explain why there was plastic bags pegged on the washing line to my friends. Mum is now mid 80s.

The Australian state that has the biggest return of plastic bottles is South Australia. They introduced a return payement, over ten years ago. Cocacola, Amitel have firecely fought a similar introduction in the other states.

E waste levies have now been introduced in a heap of european countries.

The reason is simple...people all to often will go for the easy way. The long term ramifications and consequences are just not linked up when the wheelie bin lid is opened.

Another classic example here in Oz is bottled water........Now we have some of the purest drinking water in the world.......but people have latched onto the idea that bottled in plastic is better.

This means that some attitudes and problems are getting worse not better.

So how do you get people to change habbits ?

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The chairman of the world bank has in the last few hours given a statement.

He is also either delusional, on the take, or relying on "bad science"....if that is what you wish...

He also adresses those who still have doubt.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/11 ... ng-061913/

I have just put this from an unknown google source to me......

But I have heard his vox statement. So try and find that if there is any doubt.

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OK so I had nothing left to say in this but today I had a chat with a scientist dude who susses stuff with a name well beyond this fellas spelling ability but it is related to this as he spent a lot of time sussing air quality and pollution and how it travels etc around the world, if it does.

 

I asked him a simple 'Are Humans the cause of the GCC we are seeing?'. He, without hesitation, said 'No, I don't believe we are..... yet. We will one day but I don't believe we are due to increasing CO2 emissions'.

 

He said if someone really believes we are ask them to explain why all the planets in the Solar System are warming. I found that interesting as you'd expect and asked why. He said we, the solar system, are currently travelling thru the eye of the galactic plain and that is affecting alsorts and on all planets. Some of that alsorts is a general warming trend but once we pass thru it'll slow or stop as it always has.

 

Now I have no idea as to the validity of any of that but he did seem sure and convinced so maybe he's onto something, I don't know. Anyone know anything about Galactic Plains?

 

He said other things as well but most of that has already come up so I'll leave it out.

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Just in regard to pollution in general, something which seems to be ignored by the current generation of greenies in their myopic view of the worst problem being global warming... What about stuff that we CAN influence? Simple sh*t like:

 

*No more PET bottles. Tax them out of existence and replace with recyclable glass.

*No more milk cartons. Tax them out as well and bring back glass milk bottles.

*No more plastic bags in Supermarkets. Replace them with Paper bags.

*No issues with soft drink cans as they can be re-cycled, but stop small plastic soft drink bottles, bring back glass bottles with 20c refund...

*Bring in packaging standards for importers. They will change or die. Most German products come in cardboard only. No plastic..

*Keep foreign fishing boats out of NZ with their dodgy practices. NZ boats and crew or nothing.. Watch the fish stocks and by-catches more carefully. More fisheries inspectors.

*Catalytic converters on cars legal requirement.

*Stricter WOFs on auto emissions.

 

The reason this doesn't happen is because the government doesn't have the guts and there is no money in it for them. That is why skepticism grows in both the current generation and mine as well. If the Greens concentrated on this home-grown stuff and not social engineering they might even have a chance of getting my vote..

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