TimB 7 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Dunno, I got that from the car industry, used to have a chrome plate behind the door handle to stop fingernails from scratching the paint...to wit an escutcheon plate. Car makers don't do them anymore, saves money i spose. Link to post Share on other sites
RushMan 31 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I know but had to google so will keep quiet. What is a thole? Spelling is correct Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,230 Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 A thole is a wooden pin used instead of a rowlock... Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 This is a procedure that was very common on square riggers, the "fruity" word was also very common... Although never thought of as "correct" it was no more seen as rude than a great many other terms used as descriptors by sailors of those times. An example is the Australian use of the word "bugger" as a light weight slang for damn, (which has then been rearranged to the now popular "bummer").. Damn being "damnation" or consigned to hell.. Sailors language is a fascinating thing. The words that we now use actually come from very simple terms that where put together to "describe" things or actions. Ships where complicated and needed a language to describe its parts and actions. The words came from the only other common words that revolved around every day land based life. Particularly religion, food, and body parts. A great many words we still use come from this. The name of the rope "sisal"...is an example....see if you can work out thats origins... Words like "topping lift" and "reefing" start to make good sense... Athwart, is even more interesting...the common word to thwart...means to "stop something bad happening in time"..see if you can work out why... Words like "Helm" also come from a bit of a surprise... * It may also amaze people that the vocabulary of 400 years ago contained a fraction of the words that we now use. It was a far,far simpler language. * Most of the more complicated words where invented. A large amount by scholars and printers, creating dictionaries in early England. This was big money, and the more words the dictionary had, the more "authority"...the more the sales. This gave rise to the connection of early Latin and Germanic influences to create new words. In a way it was no different to the vast amount of new words that have been invented recently and are now in common parlance. SO... what does.... "Fillin the Cuntlines, blacking, n parceling" mean ? ...and in the context of my post...why? Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Given that this is a subject that I have spent a lot of time on, and have had a huge amount of fun with... The question is where from ...and why ? Some are very obvious but still fun. 1. Companionway. 2. Sole 3. Heads 4. Shrouds 5. Tabernacle 6. Beam 7. Galley 8. Gallant 9. Genoa 10. mizzen. There is no wrong or right answer, and history on a few is a bit clouded. There is also an argument about some words as to who pinched it from whom.... Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 374 Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 a plate on the stern of a ship inscribed with the ship's name Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 374 Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 1. Companionway. - from "the way and place you find your friends cowering during a storm" 2. Sole - from "the place all the flat fish are stored" 3. Heads - from "watch your head" 4. Shrouds - from "you climb them to see through the shrouding mist" 5. Tabernacle - I got nothing 6. Beam - there's one somewhere round 'ere cap'n 7. Galley - the first part of a ship hit by a Roman Galley 8. Gallant - You'd have to be both gallant and daft to climb up that high 9. Genoa - some nasty town in Italy 10. mizzen. - from "we seem to be mizzen half that mast, sir" Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Idlerboat, you do our English ancestors a disservice, 400 years ago English was still a vibrant and complicated language, in fact possibly more so as very little standardisation had taken place. All those Latin, German, French etc influences were already in the past, however all the new world influences were just beginning. You miss my point. My interest is far more "narrow" at first than the original homogenisation of European language. The average "joe" had no idea at the first instance of his words. Those influences in "common" language became the new words. A vibrant language by virtue is a local language. But a local language is not a universal one. Written, for a start means "elite" in those times. Most people where illiterate. Common language is in fact what we speak. There is a huge miss conception that the written word of the time is the historical basis of the spoken word.. Very few could read, let alone write. ....... Again, my interest is in "poor" English. While "common" English became standardised, local county dialects didnt. "Marine" is actually one of those kinds of dialects... No disservice in fact the opposite. ....... "Maritime" like all other serious needs (farming) created a set of words FROM simpler more needed words to build a subset that allowed communication specific to boats. ...and thats the delight... They took words that mostly existed and rearranged them to mean important words for themselves... Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Dr dublya... (I will try to not smile) NO your first answer is INCORRECT... you have lost your team 10 points.. Some of the rest is ......possible ? hggmmffff * Go for it others... Deedub has ..... (ppsst I wreckon he knows most of them) I have heaps more... a lot will blow ya socks off... Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Dr dub..I just read that again...and ...it broke me up again....... cheers\and good night. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Idlerboat, you do our English ancestors a disservice, 400 years ago English was still a vibrant and complicated language,Yes and even 1oo yrs ago, it was still far more complex than today's Hack of the Pure English Langauge. Think what it would be like if everybody spoke in Shackespearean language still. Old English was so much more descriptive. For instance, one of my Favorite is a Poem that is found at the end of the Moody Blues Song, "Night's in White Satin" Cold hearted orb that rules the night, Removes the colours from our sight, Red is gray and yellow white, But we decide which is right. And which is an illusion? Pinprick holes in a colourless sky, Let insipid figures of light pass by, The mighty light of ten thousand suns, Challenges infinity and is soon gone. Night time, to some a brief interlude, To others the fear of solitude. Brave Helios wake up your steads, Bring the warmth the countryside needs. Such an incredible description of a warm Summers Night lit by a full Moon coming to an end as Dawn comes heralding the start of a new Summers day. cough cough, right sorry for that brief interlude of mushy stuff, now back to regular viewing of Bloke attitudes. Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,230 Posted May 17, 2014 Author Share Posted May 17, 2014 a plate on the stern of a ship inscribed with the ship's name Yep, just caught up on this thread. Dr, you are correct. I'll have to find a harder one.... Matt Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,230 Posted May 17, 2014 Author Share Posted May 17, 2014 OK, not harder though. Where did the word Gunnel come from? Link to post Share on other sites
Ed 143 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Gunwale perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,230 Posted May 17, 2014 Author Share Posted May 17, 2014 Ok Ed, both words have the same origin. Further back.... Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Apologies to Dr w.. It was just the way the posts ran... Lets just say if you connect the dots, I could not put a name on my boat without smiling... _______________________________________________ Anyway, the interest seems lost. The procedure was to lay small line and stitch into the "valleys" between the rope lays. The idea being to make the rope as round as possible. It was then covered in hot tar. Finaly it was either covered in a jacket of leather or bound in something like cotton twine. It was done to preserve the working ends past dead eyes...or on eye splicing up top. ____________________________________________ As to the others, there is a lot of conjecture. I will let it go and see if anyone else is interested .... cheers Link to post Share on other sites
rigger 47 Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 what does.... "Fillin the Cuntlines, blacking, n parceling" mean ? ...and in the context of my post...why? Worm and parcel with the lay turn and serve the other way. Worming - to fill the gap between the lays Parcel - apply tar or suitable glop to protect the wire / rope then wrap canvas (or other material to hand) around the rope / wire - remember to wrap from the lower end up. Serve the other way - use spun yarn or marline where I came from (though now use a synthetic), put on against the lay - if you do it the other way the serving can loosen when load cycles on and off. Once in place a good blacking down should happen All done to protect the rigging. Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,230 Posted May 18, 2014 Author Share Posted May 18, 2014 OK, the answer to the Gunnel question; Came from original cannon armed vessels, with a single deck - cannon were carried on deck, and the Gunnel - gunwale or "GUN WALL" was the wall around the outside of the deck that stopped the guns falling overboard when the vessel rolled. You can see from both derivatives where it came from. So, along the same lines - where did the word "Chunder" come from? Link to post Share on other sites
Ed 143 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 OK, the answer to the Gunnel question;Came from original cannon armed vessels, with a single deck - cannon were carried on deck, and the Gunnel - gunwale or "GUN WALL" was the wall around the outside of the deck that stopped the guns falling overboard when the vessel rolled. You can see from both derivatives where it came from. So, along the same lines - where did the word "Chunder" come from? Again on similar lines... Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey Link to post Share on other sites
Ed 143 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 So, along the same lines - where did the word "Chunder" come from? Maybe not quite the answer you were expecting? Link to post Share on other sites
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