Removal of salt build up

[benny14 6]

Hi team, have a few issues with massive salt build up on fittings on the boat I'm racing on over here in Canada, wondering if anyone has any good solutions for removal? I've had a read around on the net and a lot of people are suggesting using a white vinegar and water solution, makes sense to me, the vinegar would break the salt down pretty well, just wondering if anyone has any experience with this? Any other ideas that people have used that work well?

 

I know there are a bunch of commercial products on the market as well, they may also be worth a go, anyone used any of these?

 

Thanks!

Ben

[wheels 544]

Ummm, Fresh water?! What am I missing here. You come in at the end of Racing and wash the Boat with the Hose.

Salt is a...errr....Salt. It can only dissolve into a Highly Polar Solvent and Water is one. It will also dissolve into the following.... Methanol, Formic acid, Glycerol, Propylene glycol, Formamide and Ammonia. None of those are as good as plain ole water, so forget that Salt Away stuff. It's a complete wast of money as Water remains the best.

[Black Panther 1,822]

Doesn't it rain a whole lot in Vancouver? (Oh how I miss bagels and lox for breakfast!)

[benny14 6]

Thanks wheels, you just confirmed why I stopped visiting this site for a few years...

 

The salt hasn't been cleaned off the fittings on this boat for a rather long time by the looks, when we raced on Saturday/Sunday there were a few breakages from blocks etc... not turning properly because they had salt build up. I spent Saturday night and Sunday trying to clean these out using, you guessed it, fresh water, but to no avail, this salt needs something a little heavier...

 

So if anyone has any useful suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them.

 

And yep, it rains here all the time BP, but everyone covers their boats with tarps so the rain doesn't hit the decks! Seems a bit odd to me, but I guess it stops it getting in to the boat through leaking hatches etc...

[Clive 13]

.... Methanol, Formic acid, Glycerol, Propylene glycol, Formamide and Ammonia. None of those are as good as plain ole water, so forget that Salt Away stuff. It's a complete wast of money as Water remains the best.

Cool... that answers a question that's been in the back of my mind for a while. Always wondered what Salt Away was and if was any better than water.

Now what is Wet and Forget made out of and does it work!?

[Battgirl 23]

benny14 I have put salted boat bits in warm water and white vinegar and baking soda - about 2 capfuls of vinegar and a teaspoon of baking soda in a cup of water after scraping off as much salt as i could. I had tried 1 capful of vinegar but not much happened. I left them overnight and they were better but not perfect next day. If the fittings can't be removed you could try spraying them with the mixture and wrapping in a cloth then plastic to keep the bits moist. The mix goes fizzy and foamy when you add the soda. Good luck and happy sailing

[wheels 544]

Salt is a...errr....Salt.

OK, you didn't understand my comment Benny. Salt or "Salts" of any Chemical are very difficult to turn into anything else by a chemical Reaction. Salt is usually the end result of a reaction, not the cause. You have to do other things, normally involving Electrical Energy, to change Salts back to their Original Compound Groups. So there are no actual Acids or any other Chemical that eats the stuff, which is I think where you were coming from, am I right?

The Chemicals I listed (and there are more, but even worse performers) allow the Salt to dissolve into them. Fresh Water is the strongest and thus at the top of the list. Everything else is pretty much in order of poorer performance. So by my Post sounding rather Nerdy, it wasn't actually intended to, it was trying to show that you can't do anything with the stuff apart from dissolve it in Fresh Water.

If the Owner does not wash the gear on his Boat at the end of an outing and especially if spray has gone over fittings, then he is being pretty silly. High end performance yachting equipment, that's the stuff with ball bearings etc in them, need to be washed. If they are now worn, jammed and/or breaking, the damage is pretty much done and irreversible and if Fresh Water does not fix them, then there is nothing else that can be done other than replacement. Because it is probably not so much the Salt that is causing problems, but the fact that the Salt crystals has worn them out and Salt and Sun has made them Brittle and lost strength.

 

Now what is Wet and Forget made out of and does it work!?

It is Benzalkonium Chloride. Yes it works.

[Clive 13]

....It is Benzalkonium Chloride. Yes it works.

[Guest]

Benzalkonium chloride is highly toxic to fish (LC50 = 280 μg ai/L), very highly toxic to aquatic invertebrates (LC50 = 5.9 μg ai/L), moderately toxic to birds (LD50 = 136 mg/kg-bw), and slightly toxic to mammals (LD50 = 430 mg/kg-bw).[6] Benzalkonium chloride formulations for consumer use are dilute solutions. Concentrated solutions (10% or more) may be toxic to humans, causing corrosivity/irritation to the skin and mucosa under prolonged contact times, and death if taken internally in sufficient volumes.[7]

 

Wikipedia.....

[PaulR 3]

Warm water disolves salt faster than cold water so dunking your salted up blocks into simmering warm blocks should make things easier to disolve the salt.

 

A handy waterblaster gets water into tiny places easily.

I have a unit that has a tube for putting into a soapy solution for house washing etc. that you could put into a bucket of warm water or simply put the inlet hose into the bucket. It is best to do this on some steps so you can gravity / syphon supply the water to the waterblaster.

 

A really clever person would buy the garden soil sieve first as it is generally BIGGER than the 99c buckets. I have a red "BIG-Bucket", and then fit a hose barb skin fitting . . . or a threaded outlet with clip on connection for the supply hose to the water blaster.

 

You can get a round plastic fine (4mm 1/4 inch) garden soil sieve (about $15), you can put this on top of your bucket of warm water and recycle the warm water easily with only a kettle load of warm water needed for topup as required. The sieve also stops small items e.g. shackle pins, small plates to stop blocks spinning and catches nearly all of the plastic roller balls that mysteriously suddendly appear.

 

Again it all depends upon the frequency and quantity of equipment you need to de-salt and the time you have available. All it takes is a level of equipment you most probably have already anyway.

 

Have fun

[too_tall 15]

Steam cleaning works wonders I have found. Just make sure what your cleaning can handle the pressure and heat - or more so, stuff around it can..

[Freedom GBE 27]

Seal the hatches, remove tarps and let the rain do your work for you. I have never hosed of our boat. Cheers

[wheels 544]

Benzalkonium chloride is highly toxic to fish (LC50 = 280 μg ai/L), very highly toxic to aquatic invertebrates (LC50 = 5.9 μg ai/L), moderately toxic to birds (LD50 = 136 mg/kg-bw), and slightly toxic to mammals (LD50 = 430 mg/kg-bw).[6] Benzalkonium chloride formulations for consumer use are dilute solutions. Concentrated solutions (10% or more) may be toxic to humans, causing corrosivity/irritation to the skin and mucosa under prolonged contact times, and death if taken internally in sufficient volumes.[7]

Everything is Toxic in a strong enough amount. In Wet&Forget, it is in such a small amount it won't be of concern, unless you pour the the liquid directly into a Waterway. But then so is Chlorine and many other cleaning Liquids. In fact I would suggest most Bio Friendly Boat products would kill Aquatic life if it was concentrated enough.

Anyway, Benzalkonium Chloride is a common House hold Disinfectant and is found in pretty much any cleaner that is advertised as "Kills 99.9% of Germs" and can also be found in antiseptics and Dettol.

However, plain old Saltwater works even better for getting rid uo Slime/Algae on the top sides of the Boat, so why would you spray anything else on, especially when Saltwater is free.

[NevP 0]

I can't help wondering if the problem here isn't really salt build up but is actually corrosion caused or at least promoted by the salty environment. eg the corrosion of aluminium produces a white powdery oxide(?) which could be mistaken for salt.

 

Wheels' explanation seems convincing that water is the best thing for removing salt. So, if I accept that, why is it that a zip on a sail bag that is jammed with what appears to be salt can be almost instantly freed with a splash of vinegar? My thought is that it is corrosion and not salt clogging the zip. Could this be the case for Ben's original problem and all the other anecdotal evidence that suggests that salt can be removed with vinegar (or Salt Away)?

 

If I'm correct, then sure there will have been some damage done by corrosion to whatever the item is, but an application of vinegar or similar may at least get rid of the 'oxide' and free up the fitting in question.

 

Ben, it would be interesting to hear whether you tried something that worked.

[wheels 544]

You are correct on that NevP. That white stuff is Oxidation of Aluminium. Vinegar would work at removing it, but it would be a slow process. Any of the SST cleaners that have either Oxalic Acid or Phosphoric Acid in them would be slightly better, because the Acid will be a little more aggressive. There is an Aluminium Cleaner sold by Super Cheap that has Sulphuric Acid and Hydroflouric Acid in it and that cleans Ally up really nice. But all those Acids need to be used with care that you don't dribble them onto something else that they might stain in some way.

Another that can be used are the Descaling products like CLR, Easyoff, LimeAway and several others, all use Sulfamic Acid. Both Sulfamic and Phosphoric Acids are non toxic. All the others are Toxic in some way and Hydroflouric can kill you in several different very nasty ways all at once. Although it is in a very dilute amount in that Ally cleaner.

[Clive 13]

What's the best acid to use to de-scale your engine on the salt water side?

Citric?

[rigger 47]

Hydroflouric Acid

Will mark glass so go careful using. Do not ask how I know this....

[Steve Pope 255]

Phosphoric acid at a 1 to 4 or 1 to 5 ratio acid to water. Once it stops frothing its job is done. Just needs reasonably copious flushing with water to remove. Running the engine will do that for you. Or you can take the tube bundle out of the Heat Exchanger and put it in a container not much larger than the bundle (saves acid mix) pour in solution and await the frothing to stop, rinse etc and re-instal. If you want let the mixture settle and pour off the solution into a suitable container and store for next time. Dispose of the dregs safely.

[Clive 13]

Thanks guys!

[wheels 544]

What's the best acid to use to de-scale your engine on the salt water side?

Citric?

Phosphoric will work, but not quite as effective as below. It is very "soapy" and froths up quite a bit.

CLR (Sulfamic) is a good one because it has a real hunger for Calcium. Can be found at Mega10, but it isn't cheap from there.

Diluted Hydrochloric Acid, often Sold as Spirit of Salts or Muriatic Acid.

Be careful about any fumes that could be given off. Salt is Sodium Chloride and any Acid will react violently and give off Chlorine Gas. You won't have much I know, but just in case there is Saltwater trapped inside a Water passage, just beware.

 

Quote:

Hydroflouric Acid

 

Will mark glass so go careful using. Do not ask how I know this....

Yes Rigger, the Only Acid that is known to eat Silica, which is Sand/Rock and of course Glass is made from Silica Sand.

It's one heck of a nasty product. It is found in a very concentrated form in many SST Pickling pastes and I just hate using it.

It does not always Burn your skin like other Acids do, but absorbs through your Skin all the way to your Bones and dissolves the Calcium in your Bones, apparently in a very painful way. It can also enter your Blood Stream via the Lungs if you breath the fumes and make you very anemic, because it simply destroys the Iron in your Blood. If you get a high enough does of the stuff, it will kill you.

If you ever do get it on your Skin, it stains the Skin kind of that Nicotine yellowy brown colour. Of course when I was just out of school and started my Engineering career, we would use the stuff with no protection in those days and you would often have stains on your Skin. in recent times, it was removed from the market because someone made it a Hazardous Substance and you needed a licence to obtain it. then a few months later they relaxed the restriction and it's back on the market again. Now that I know what the stuff can do, I really respect it these days.