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Barker and Dalton should go.


Guest Ketchup

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Guest Ketchup

since I could not reply to Smithy09's comment in another thread (titled moth worlds)...

 

Here is my reasoning for Barker/dalton to be dismissed.

 

13 years of failure

 

Failure to obtain Key KPI. Winning the AC.

 

The two key decision makers on a AC team are the GM/CEO and the Skipper. (Coutts/Spitthill, bond / Bertrand, berterelli/Coutts, ...) they are accountable for all the key decisions and have the final say on most/all matters. These two failed on many levels. (From boat design/upgradeing to onboard decisions...)

 

Between Dalton and Barker they cost the team. 3million PA. That Money would be better spent on new talent/winners!

 

Barker history of failure to execute at key stages could rub of on the brilliant Burling. As a "key influencer" he is not a person I would have on the team. (Negative/wrong influence)

 

They both have had their chances and offer nothing new to the team.

 

They both have "failure" stamped in their phsycolgy.

 

Every year they remain in their respective position many many potential replacements go offshore.

 

Coutts, Ainslie and co have their measure. Both on and of the wager

 

 

SMITHY09, if you had a "key" employee in your buisnes who was paid very well to perform (say? - win business, or secure large contracts) and was a key decision Maker and he/she failed in their key #1 KPI for 13+ years, would you say "FFS give him a break!"

 

I think not.

 

There you go..... flame away!... I welcome the responses and want to hear from all the Barker/Dalton supporters as to their justifications for their retention ahead of other better qualified people. ( in and out of ETNZ).

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I think ETNZ are supposedly running trials for Skipper this time. I don't think Barker will win it. I don't think he is the one for this job.

Dalton apparently made the decision last time that allowed the lay day, and cost us the regatta. I think he has done well at the finance side to still have a viable team, but I don't think we will win if he has basically sole governance again.

 

However, like most of us on here, my info is 2nd or 3rd hand, or from the media, all of which could be wrong. I really felt sorry for them both last time to have come so close. Probably as close as those two will ever get, but I'd REALLY like to be surprised.

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TNZ is a private organisation so if they want to have a flatulent Komodo dragon driving their boat they can.

 

You don't get a say sorry fella. 

 

I'd suggest you forget the AC and concentrate on yacht racing instead, it's way more fun to follow...even if the boats don't always look quite so Star Trek like.

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Guest Ketchup

I would concur whole heartily KMM if it was nt for over 30 million of our Tax dollers being gifted to them with not come back.

 

Concur too IT. But I have seen nothing since' Dalton said he was leaving and Barker went all cry baby' that they have made a quantum leap forward in terms of change and improvement.

 

The Burling employment withsatanding... as a obvious "no brainer"...

 

 

Oh sorry I apologise....there was one good decision... getting rid of the team coach and world best AC loser of all time... that good old American loser Rod Davis.

 

But I believe Rod left after another squillion dollar offer to lose with another team.

 

The skipper trials should be between our best sailors.

 

Namely Burling, his Crew, and maybe throw in Aleh or Josh junior or any sailor that has actually won something major at "world class" level.

 

Barker need to go away and earn his way back in.

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I would concur whole heartily KMM if it was nt for over 30 million of our Tax dollers being gifted to them with not come back.

Sorry but that's pretty much irrelevant now nor was it a gift,

You will notice though that with the change of Govt there has been a change of heart, one that you'll probably like so look forward and stop looking backward.

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Guest Ketchup

Sorry but that's pretty much irrelevant now nor was it a gift,

You will notice though that with the change of Govt there has been a change of heart, one that you'll probably like so look forward and stop looking backward.

That's the whole thing KMM I am looking forward! Just like I did 4 years ago, on this forum, when I predicted Barker would fail agian .

 

In order to go forward with the best chance of winning ETNZ need to cut out people, process, systems, and mindsets that did not / will not get the result they desire.

 

The biggest barrier to going forward, and remove the aformention issues, is changing the people who drove those issues and managed those mind sets.

 

Dalton and Barker managed the program on and of the water. They are the biggest problem and they created the culture that failed.

 

If they cannot change then ETNZ cannot. And I ain't seeing much change in ether.

 

Also KMM, even without our money ETNZ is not a private team when it uses NZ in its name and pretends to be representing NZ.

 

If they are a representative NZ team then where is the YNZ backing/invovement and where is the trials for NZ only crew?

 

Happy for them to be truly private with no reference to NZ. Also happy for them to be Government funded if they then seek renewal of all key positions every 4 years!' (A true democratic system and not Dalton promoting Dalton) run trials for all positions, run a full regatta for any other NZ challenger to compete in - to represent NZ, and have only NZ companies as sponsors oh .. and limit wages to reasonable rates.

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AC = Yawn

 

But good on ya for trying to hang in there with it, I do admire your determination.

.

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I find it interesting that the alternatives being offered up are dinghy sailors.

 

Are there any other potential skippers who have won "World Championships" in boats with say 6 or more crew?

 

Does ability in a single handed class such as the Moth translate to instant success and world domination in say a TP52 or Extreme 40 or even an America's Cup foiling catamaran?

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Are there any other potential skippers who have won "World Championships" in boats with say 6 or more crew?

 

 

 

Probably, but I bet they all started as champion dinghy sailors first.

 

Its like most sports, the ones who started racing early i.e. 5, 6, 7 year olds and who stick with it generally succeed later in life over those that get involved later in life.

 

Not many 6yo kids helming keel boats with 6+ crew, but plenty in dinghys

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Guest Ketchup

Interesting point.

 

I, think the dingy thing reflects the change from lead swingers to hi tech multi's.

 

I could not see a dennis conner , in his prime, steering today's modern AC rocket ships.

 

I also think the AC is a yawn fest and bullshit for the billionaires. But...

 

If some one/team is going to represent NZ officially or unofficialy then I want them to win andnj want the "gravy train" to stop and new blood to be installed in order to evolve the event and NZ sailing

 

I would prefer we gave the AC a miss and re routed the money and resources back into the local sailing sport here, but that ain't going to happe:n while we have ego's and sponsors looking to hang their hat on big profile events, fame and fortune. ( more perception than reality)

 

A return to keel boats in the AC will see the return of older, more experienced sailors where fitness is replaced by cunning and skill, and agility is replaced by close tactics etc.

 

One thing I miss with this current AC mob is their lack of wit, great speaches, and their inability to make good press statement. They are so sterile it makes you wonder if they actually have a personality.

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Calling for the replacement of Barker/Dalton, as you point out, who are perpetual losers seems to be a short sighted solution to a long term program.

 

To lose their experience when not having a suitable EXPERIENCED replacement is throwing the baby out with the bath water.

 

Burling may steer the next AC challenge but he is still at the apprenticeship stage of his career.

 

Barker may not be a "Master Builder" but he does have some relevant experience.

 

Hopefully the TEAM at TNZ will have the right people in the right positions in Bermuda but nothing we write here will alter their processes or decisions.

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Guest Ketchup

Rushman i have two answers to your post and idont know which one is more applicable...

 

Answer 1 - You're right rush man we don't have a experienced replacement. Why? Because Barker has tied up the helming position for 13+ Years. Thus all the talent did other things/were lost to other countries.

 

answer 2 - you,re right Rush man we don,t have an experienced replacement. What we have is a superior and far more talented replacement in Burling. Burling is a winner. Olympics, worlds, you name it he has done it and way better than Barker ever was and ever will be.

 

If the Ac was in lead swingers then I would say keep barker to help Burlington. But in the fast paced multi/skiff/foiling world the AC is now I would say that Barker is the apprentice to Burling. And an apprentice that will not get better with age.

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Guest Ketchup

Oh and your right! All the posts here will make Jack shite difference, but...

 

 

One of us will have the pleasure of being right.

 

I'm picking me... as in - Barker will remain, may helm, and lose again.

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The next race series in the foiling AC45's will show us more.

 

Ketchup.. (Or whatever you want to call yourself this week)

Your needle seems to be stuck, time to give the record player a kick so the track changes.

 

You keep wasting your powder when you should be waiting for some new ammunition, when that happens then you can boast on being the first to tell us that you were right.

 

Personally I don't care who is the next skipper as long as they are the best available.

 

Question... Who is the young gun who was steering Cubic a couple of years ago? Blond hair, I think he might be 17 or 18 now.

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Guest Ketchup

Agree with your first comment.

 

I don't waste my powder Rushman but only comment when new ammo pops up.

 

If you have noticed? - the Moth world result was very nice ammo. 24th kind of proves my point. Highly technical foiling class where skill, Technology and good sailing ability is paramount. A mini AC with more competition! And Barker was no where to be seen.

 

A class worlds.. fail.

 

I only comment when the "B" word and words like great, good, excellent, etc are posted.

 

I think most of the forum, who don't comment, are either with me or just hate the AC.

 

Could be wrong, but I suspect I am right.

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Blah blah blah. Take it sailing anarchy. Oh wait, thu ignore you over there now. Why we keep tolerating the repetitive stirring nonsense I have no idea.

 

Argue your point you say?

 

Ok, oracle were damn lucky to hold on to the ac. They clearly had a quicker boat, but were so badly prepared or arrogant, they thought they would win easily. Last minute developments and learning is not the sign of a well prepared team. Personally I think coutts did the completely shithouse job of leading the team. They had the boat, the funding and the sailing skill to crush us 9-1.

So I think barker and dalton did a brilliant job. Mistakes were made, but not as many as on the other side.

 

Not saying barker is still the man for the job, but I think he is Damn good and I'd not be unhappy if he sticks around.

 

Stick to giving painting advice, something you actually know something about.

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Guest Ketchup

Some good points there Clipper and I concur with most, but... yes there is a but....Coutts leadership was superior in my mind.

 

He had to step up through many issues (cheating, capsize, crew bannings, and design/technology problems)

 

When require he made the big calls an they all ended up being winners. He was

Tested when the heat came on and proved to be excellent.

 

Remember that meeting with Spithill on the tender. That was one of many turning points.

 

Meanwhile when the heat came on ETNZ... Nothing happened! They all looked "glazed in the eyes" and had no backup plans!. Theor key phrase was " keep doing what we're doing" and we will be fine. ( hardly the leadership needed when on a losing slump)

 

Dalton had no "change up plan" and relied to heavily on Pie warmers, and beam fairings to make the difference. They were old ideas designed prior to the AC. Nothing new evolved when the shite hit the spinning thing.

 

When Barker was staring to lose races there was no back up option. No pressure from another skipper throughout the campaign, made Barker lazy.

 

Then their was funding issues that stagnated real development of their foils and foil control.

 

Dalton and Barkers management style limited their development and I blieve they did not develop any further speed (technical/boat) once they started sailing in SF.

 

Coutts kept the eye on the ball, and kept the foil developments going 24/7. He dealt with many issues and made the changes that won the AC

 

You cannot say that about Dalton and Barker

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