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Barker and Dalton should go.


Guest Ketchup

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For what it is worth Fonterra is only number 4 in the world but by and large does a pretty good job by NZ dairy farmers.

ETNZ have made a fair few finals in recent AC's and most would acknowledge them as being top two or three in any given year.

Is that good enough? Depends on your point of view.

I will say I get a bit sick of people saying they were unlucky in the last cup. In race 8 from my vantage point on Marina Green, I couldn't believe they didn't turn turtle and game over.

Sure they could have won the race that timed out and perhaps Barker should have tapped Spithill in the second last start to force the umpires call but everything is easy with hindsight.

I will say as a Kiwi in San Francisco I was mighty proud of ETNZ's efforts in the last cup. They led the charge for the longest time in foiling technology but couldn't quite get it done.

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Guest Ketchup

No insult bannari. Just stating the facts.

 

Just sniping one paragraph, in many posts, is trolling.

 

Have an opinion.

 

If you have read the posts I made correctly I have already stipulated them

M. They are obvious to anyone /all and sundry.

 

Futhermore, have a proper opinion and I will respond.

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Guest Ketchup

For what it is worth Fonterra is only number 4 in the world but by and large does a pretty good job by NZ dairy farmers.

ETNZ have made a fair few finals in recent AC's and most would acknowledge them as being top two or three in any given year.

Is that good enough? Depends on your point of view.

I will say I get a bit sick of people saying they were unlucky in the last cup. In race 8 from my vantage point on Marina Green, I couldn't believe they didn't turn turtle and game over.

Sure they could have won the race that timed out and perhaps Barker should have tapped Spithill in the second last start to force the umpires call but everything is easy with hindsight.

I will say as a Kiwi in San Francisco I was mighty proud of ETNZ's efforts in the last cup. They led the charge for the longest time in foiling technology but couldn't quite get it done.

Good points Dark side. And you hit on a great example with Barker letting Spit hill off the hook at that start(among other things?).

 

That is a classic example of Barkers lack of "killer punch" winning aggression. No doubt Spihill would have nailed Barker if reversed. Ainslie would too! And Coutts, Butterworth would! But Dean is to soft and lacks that edge that real winners have.

 

Burling might have that weakness to?' I hope not.

 

Also worth considering is the fact that there were really only 2.5 teams in the last event. So being top 2 or 3 means zero.

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If you have read the posts I made correctly I have already stipulated them.

YOU don't get to stipulate KPIs as you are not ETNZ's employer.

If you put your money where your mouth is, and Emirates Team New Zealand became Ketchup Team New Zealand (or perhaps more creatively Team New Zealand Between The Sheets) that situation might change.

But until that day your KPIs are meaningless.

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For what it is worth Fonterra is only number 4 in the world but by and large does a pretty good job by NZ dairy farmers.

ETNZ have made a fair few finals in recent AC's and most would acknowledge them as being top two or three in any given year.

Is that good enough? Depends on your point of view.

I will say I get a bit sick of people saying they were unlucky in the last cup. In race 8 from my vantage point on Marina Green, I couldn't believe they didn't turn turtle and game over.

Sure they could have won the race that timed out and perhaps Barker should have tapped Spithill in the second last start to force the umpires call but everything is easy with hindsight.

I will say as a Kiwi in San Francisco I was mighty proud of ETNZ's efforts in the last cup. They led the charge for the longest time in foiling technology but couldn't quite get it done.

Attention Tomato Sauce. major thread drift. Ignore this post!!

 

Ahem.... As KM would say, "I've gone deep" (Actually only one Google search, but why let the facts get in the way of a good story):

 

Top 20 milk processor list   IFCN

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Good points Dark side. And you hit on a great example with Barker letting Spit hill off the hook at that start(among other things?).

 

That is a classic example of Barkers lack of "killer punch" winning aggression. No doubt Spihill would have nailed Barker if reversed. Ainslie would too! And Coutts, Butterworth would! But Dean is to soft and lacks that edge that real winners have.

 

Burling might have that weakness to?' I hope not.

 

Also worth considering is the fact that there were really only 2.5 teams in the last event. So being top 2 or 3 means zero.

Sorry mate. Now you're just dribbling. Luna Rossa + ETNZ + Oracle + Artemis = 4 teams that made it to the show. Can't remember how many other teams did start the ball rolling, spent cash, but didn't meet their KPIs :roll: and rolled over. I would count them too. How the flock you get 2.5 teams out of that is just bollocks, or tax accountant maths. Anything to justify your obsession about Dean and co. You DID have the hots for Mandy, didn't you? Lie back on the couch and tell me all about it.. :razz:  :razz:  :razz:

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Smithy you are correct but it depends on volume or turnover.

I used the turnover rankings which basically show Fonterra don't add a lot of value compared to the European companies.

https://www.rabobank.com/en/press/search/2014/dairy_top20.html

Topping the rankings on money is what we should aspire to, in my humble opinion as an ex dairy farmer.

But back to the thread.

Do they need Dalton to raise the money? It would seem so.

Was there anyone better than Dean available to ETNZ last time? Don't think so, not even close.

Will Dean steer next time? Hard to say yet but with the rise of the new young guns probably not.

It's a shame they can't work out a way to hold the next one somewhere as good as San Francisco for the spectators.

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Guest Ketchup

Sorry mate. Now you're just dribbling. Luna Rossa + ETNZ + Oracle + Artemis = 4 teams that made it to the show. Can't remember how many other teams did start the ball rolling, spent cash, but didn't meet their KPIs :roll: and rolled over. I would count them too. How the flock you get 2.5 teams out of that is just bollocks, or tax accountant maths. Anything to justify your obsession about Dean and co. You DID have the hots for Mandy, didn't you? Lie back on the couch and tell me all about it.. :razz:  :razz:  :razz:

No sorry Smithy, you may fancy Mandy. But she is not my cup of tea!.. I went for something better looking brunette and with brains.

 

2.5 teams is an accurate measure of how many teams were competitive smithy. They were Oracle, Etnz, and Artemis get 1/2 a point for showing up. Luna rossa were their as glorified advertising.

 

But Smithy tell me about your obsession with Barker. You seen to defend him with such gusto that it has me concerned for your manlihood :-)

 

But more importantly... when will you answer my question?...

 

I think you would fire any key employee who failed to meet key targets (formerly known as KPI's) for two years....let alone 13.

 

Back at ya chappy.

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I was talking about milk powder production mainly. Guess I should have said that. Fonterra don't add much value on that compared to others but their Milk powder factories are world class thanks to some damn good Kiwi engineers, hey SJB?

 

Agree with all your points. I think they are moving in the right direction. One thing about Pete Burling where he lacks experience (Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan) is match racing, where Dean has a huge amount of experience. He will get it though. Slowly slowly. I reckon they are on the right track.

 

Dalts was a bit out of control with his management style from all the gossip, so ETNZ have gone the management committee route, and good move again.

 

They have the money I am told. How good is that? Awesome result.

 

Is this all good for NZ and NZ sailing? Hell yeah!

 

Agreed on San Fran. Getting up there was on my bucket list, preferably sailing up!

 

Tomato sauce still has to come clean about Mandy though..

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Smithy you are correct but it depends on volume or turnover.

I used the turnover rankings which basically show Fonterra don't add a lot of value compared to the European companies.

https://www.rabobank.com/en/press/search/2014/dairy_top20.html

Topping the rankings on money is what we should aspire to, in my humble opinion as an ex dairy farmer.

But back to the thread.

Do they need Dalton to raise the money? It would seem so.

Was there anyone better than Dean available to ETNZ last time? Don't think so, not even close.

Will Dean steer next time? Hard to say yet but with the rise of the new young guns probably not.

It's a shame they can't work out a way to hold the next one somewhere as good as San Francisco for the spectators.

Better than dean... hell yes.there were three guys on The team better than Dean! One who was so good and a Multiple AClass world Champ. Burling would have been good back then too! And the Koreans he sailed with knew that too!

 

The AC as an event, plus the team and its advertising potential brings in sponsors not Dalton. But Dalts could be sponsorship manager.

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No sorry Smithy, you may fancy Mandy. Sure, she's a hottie. But she is not my cup of tea!.. I went for something better looking brunette and with brains. uh huh.. Sure.

 

2.5 teams is an accurate measure of how many teams were competitive smithy. They were Oracle, Etnz, and Artemis get 1/2 a point for showing up. Luna rossa were their as glorified advertising. Bollocks.

 

But Smithy tell me about your obsession with Barker. You seen to defend him with such gusto that it has me concerned for your manlihood :-)

 

 I sailed with Dean in Lasers. He was a quiet, shy guy who got on with it. I didn't know him well, but got a general impression of what he was like as a person.  I was most impressed with him after Coutts, Butterworth and co left. He travelled the world rounding up ex TNZ members who were about to desert and persuaded them to hang tough. I bet he was well out of his comfort zone doing this, but he did it anyway. For that stepping up to the plate, and the way he has conducted himself ever since, he gets my vote. Great representative for NZ. Quiet, but passionate and determined.

 

But more importantly... when will you answer my question?...

 

I think you would fire any key employee who failed to meet key targets (formerly known as KPI's) for two years....let alone 13. He's met them all. Winning the AC is a team target. Sack them all and see where that leads you. Following your line of thinking and sacking Dean and Dalts would lead to the implosion of ETNZ. there ya go. Question answered.

 

Back at ya chappy.

 

 

See above.

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I was talking about milk powder production mainly. Guess I should have said that. Fonterra don't add much value on that compared to others but their Milk powder factories are world class thanks to some damn good Kiwi engineers, hey SJB?

 

Agree with all your points. I think they are moving in the right direction. One thing about Pete Burling where he lacks experience (Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan) is match racing, where Dean has a huge amount of experience. He will get it though. Slowly slowly. I reckon they are on the right track.

 

Dalts was a bit out of control with his management style from all the gossip, so ETNZ have gone the management committee route, and good move again.

 

They have the money I am told. How good is that? Awesome result.

 

Is this all good for NZ and NZ sailing? Hell yeah!

 

Agreed on San Fran. Getting up there was on my bucket list, preferably sailing up!

 

Tomato sauce still has to come clean about Mandy though..

Match racing skills are not required as much in Cats smithy.

 

San Fran was an awesome event accept where they hid the compounds and having "the cone" on the starboard layline.

 

As for deans experience... well he has sailed a lot but his experience does not contain any big event wins! I don,t count his match racing wins with much cred.

 

Burling is already a better sailor and down more than Barker. Barker has failed in the Olympics, world champs at senior level, AC... burling has a silver multiple world champs in big fleets, and is still very young.

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See above.

shite smithy! Two up in a laser with Dean... say no more. :-)

 

And you did not answer the question! You extrapolated it out to the whole team.

 

Teams are lead by leaders? Coutts Spithill are leaders. Barker... don't think so!

 

WOULD YOU SACK A KEY EMPLOYEE THAT FAILED TO MEET HIS GOALS/TARGETS AFTER Thirteen YEARS - YES / NO...

 

Come on smithy its easy! You can do it!

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Match racing skills are not required as much in Cats smithy. Rubbish. Start line is everything and Dean held his own. Fleet racing is Soooooo diferent to one on one.

 

San Fran was an awesome event accept where they hid the compounds and having "the cone" on the starboard layline.

 

As for deans experience... well he has sailed a lot but his experience does not contain any big event wins! I don,t count his match racing wins with much cred.

 

Oh for God's sake:

1993 NZ match racing champs: 1st.

1994 NZ match racing champs: 1st

1995 NZ match racing champs: 1st.

 

2001 ISAF world match racing champs: 1st.

2005 Congressional cup: 1st.

2006 TP52s: 2nd.

2009 TP52s: 1st.

2010 TP52s: 1st

2010 Louis Vuiton Cup: 1st.

Yup, what a loser!!

Burling is already a better sailor and down more than Barker. Barker has failed in the Olympics, world champs at senior level, AC... URL g has a silver multiple world champs in big fleets, and is still very young.

 

Enough. Your arguments have little value, only persistence, bringing very few facts to the table, which is easy to do. Visit any pub... I am backing up what I say with reasons. You are just banging the same old points, so at this point, I withdraw. Smithy out!

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Attention Tomato Sauce. major thread drift. Ignore this post!!

 

Ahem.... As KM would say, "I've gone deep" (Actually only one Google search, but why let the facts get in the way of a good story):

 

And this means what?

 

Foterra has shrunk as a company?gone to #1 in NZ/asia... it not our biggest income earner / employer?

 

I,be seen better drifting in south Auckland on a Saturday night smithy. Now back to defending Dean... stay focussed man!

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Enough. Your arguments have little value, only persistence, bringing very few facts to the table, which is easy to do. Visit any pub... I am backing up what I say with reasons. You are just banging the same old points, so at this point, I withdraw. Smithy out!

I have offered many reasons, which you ignore, and offered facts!

 

That list proves my point. Very few low quality wins over 20+ years!

 

Same could be said about your posts smithy... persistance, little value etc... it just differing perspectives. I respect your perspective and you fight your corener very well... unlike most "fence sitters" here.

 

Look... whatever happens happens. If Deans stays, helms and wins... I will be the first to say I was wrong, and for dean it would be great and get a big monkey of his back. But if he loses I will say that was an another opportunity lost.

 

Smithy, we share the same passion just different view point.

 

Agree to disagree and look forward to the next AC.

 

Been great debating with you!:-)

 

... and no Mandy is not my cup of Tea... a bit like finger nails down a chalk board! For me

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