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Barker and Dalton should go.


Guest Ketchup

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you are calling barker lazy?Amazing.  

 

Such repetitive sh*t from you, its not worth arguing any points.  Hurry up and get  yourself banned again, this place is far better off without you.

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Don't agree Ketchup.

I would be amazed if Coutts did not know about the "cheating" And then sacrificed team members as scapegoats. Current court case about this.

If he did not know, that is a serious failure of Oracle management. In many ways, it was the massive $$ they had available that saved them from an almost certain loss.

The ETNZ design and development was superior, including the ability to fully foil, which was originally thought by Oracle (and others) to be impossible.

The key for me was the jury decision to allow automated foil control, and ETNZ's failure to protest this withing the time limit. This was a failure of ETNZ management.

Once that was allowed, to compete, ETNZ would have needed a similar system and new, narrower foils. There was no budget for that, and no time. Apparently ETNZ had considered such a system, and dismissed it as being illegal - but they did not ask.   

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you are calling barker lazy?Amazing.  

 

Such repetitive sh*t from you, its not worth arguing any points.  Hurry up and get  yourself banned again, this place is far better off without you.

 

Im with Ken here. 

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Be careful. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Obey the forum rules, incl be polite, no personal attacks, participate like adults.

If you feel a post is not constructive, or breaches the rules, then report it. Do NOT answer in kind, our you will likely receive the same response as the original poster concerned, and risk being banned.

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Guest Ketchup

you are calling barker lazy?Amazing.  

 

Such repetitive sh*t from you, its not worth arguing any points.  Hurry up and get  yourself banned again, this place is far better off without you.

Not worth arguing the points or have no points to argue? Gee and you started of really well.

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Guest Ketchup

Don't agree Ketchup.

I would be amazed if Coutts did not know about the "cheating" And then sacrificed team members as scapegoats. Current court case about this.

If he did not know, that is a serious failure of Oracle management. In many ways, it was the massive $$ they had available that saved them from an almost certain loss.

The ETNZ design and development was superior, including the ability to fully foil, which was originally thought by Oracle (and others) to be impossible.

The key for me was the jury decision to allow automated foil control, and ETNZ's failure to protest this withing the time limit. This was a failure of ETNZ management.

Once that was allowed, to compete, ETNZ would have needed a similar system and new, narrower foils. There was no budget for that, and no time. Apparently ETNZ had considered such a system, and dismissed it as being illegal - but they did not ask.

 

Excellent points and worth considering. If correct then ETNZ's management should have never exposed what they had so early, or... kept evolving what they had and sacrificed money spent on wages, pie warmers, fairings, etc.... and spent it on foil control, foil design and a back up helmsman.

 

The way I see it is Oracle started behind the eight ball but kept evolving the RIGHT areas (foil control, oil design) they also had a better wing sail in MHO. After all you need good horse power to make good foils work at a lower wind speed/boat speed.

 

Either way Oracle, Coutts, and Spithill took on issues and dealt with them better while also having a better plan. That all cumulated in a faster boat, superior sailors and a win!

 

It may be hard for the few (very small number) folk on this forum (clipper, booboo, rush man) to accept this and as per usual they run out of arguememt and then start playing/trolling the me instead of the points I make, but in reality ETNZ's key people (Barker and Dalton) have not been taken to task and held accountable. And the only Scapegoat has been Rod Davis. (Who also stated that the biggest mistake they made was showing off the foils way to early)

 

Sorry, Clipper, Booboo, Rush man, if the deaptail and fact negate your position.

 

Clipper, you are the one likely to be banned based on your posts content, not mine. Man up and debate the topic or ignore. Easy really!

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Guest Ketchup

Oh God, just put two and two together... deliberately provocative and knows about paint... break out the popcorn, here we go again...

what's your opinion Bannari? You must have one....
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Clipper, you are the one likely to be banned based on your posts content, not mine. Man up and debate the topic or ignore. Easy really!

 

Wouldn't worry me, i have no desire to frequent any place your nonsense is considered worthy of anyones time,

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Guest Ketchup

Im with Ken here.

 

Hey Booboo, what are your thoughts on this? I would be keen to hear what you think, from your "professional sailor" perspective.

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but in reality ETNZ's key people (Barker and Dalton) have not been taken to task and held accountable.

 

Oh but they have and is why your argument hasn't really got much to stand on. That's after excluding the fact TNZ has less need to satisfy you than they do their local dunny paper seller or you saying it another 10 times making it near 2,000,000 times by now or the fact it's now history.

 

If TNZ's management (which is way more than just GD now) are to be believed, and I can't see any reason not too, most if not all of their sponsors have signed up with them again and new ones have joined in to play in the next round of whatever that was.

 

Ergo the people TNZ are accountable to must be happy. How happy? Millions and millions of dollars worth of happy. 

 

And to add to that, the person who OKed TNZ 30 odd million from the Govt has said he was happy with the outcome and the current Govt, how do tend to be more commercially focused than the previous, haven't said No either. Yes I know they haven't said yes either but they haven't written it off.

 

So TNZ have been held to account by those who pay them and they came out OK. They may not have been held to account by you but they why the f*ck would they care?

 

 

Saying the above does exclude the fact I think some of our other analysts isn't too bad and probably closer to reality than most would like to admit.

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Wouldn't worry me, i have no desire to frequent any place your nonsense is considered worthy of anyones time,

that funny. It appears to be worthy of your time, amongst others.
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Guest Ketchup

Oh but they have and is why your argument hasn't really got much to stand on. That's after excluding the fact TNZ has less need to satisfy you than they do their local dunny paper seller or you saying it another 10 times making it near 2,000,000 times by now or the fact it's now history.

 

If TNZ's management (which is way more than just GD now) are to be believed, and I can't see any reason not too, most if not all of their sponsors have signed up with them again and new ones have joined in to play in the next round of whatever that was.

 

Ergo the people TNZ are accountable to must be happy. How happy? Millions and millions of dollars worth of happy. 

 

And to add to that, the person who OKed TNZ 30 odd million from the Govt has said he was happy with the outcome and the current Govt, how do tend to be more commercially focused than the previous, haven't said No either. Yes I know they haven't said yes either but they haven't written it off.

 

So TNZ have been held to account by those who pay them and they came out OK. They may not have been held to account by you but they why the f*ck would they care?

 

 

Saying the above does exclude the fact I think some of our other analysts isn't too bad and probably closer to reality than most would like to admit.

KMM, sponsorship will always prevail despite the result. As long as their product is exposed they have won, regardless of the result or any godd/bad press.

 

The rest of you post is superfluous and irrelevant to the argument/point I am making.

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:razz:  Ah an attempt at the old dodge n deflection trick I see fella. Sorry but you have been wanking on now, for around 2,958,985 +/- a few posts, that TNZ haven't been held accountable.

 

So if you are now trying to say TNZ isn't accountable to the people who fund and do the yards backing it, then it's accountable to whom exactly?

 

I think you're time would be far better spend trying to explain why you find cheating and the throwing of your own team members under the bus while trying to hide it, as acceptable. Where your call for accountability there?

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Actually Ketchup, internationally renowned man of many names, is absolutely correct....

 

TNZ should sack everyone from the toilet cleaner upwards... They obviously can't achieve the various KPI's that they need to.

 

The entire yachting industry in NZ isn't up to scratch either as there is only one possible replacement for the entire team.... Burling the magnificent!!!

 

Burling will now raise the millions, design, test, build the new boat and then sail it single handed against the mighty Oracle, the spend more, rule bending defender of the Americas Cup. He will prevail by reinventing the wheel, refine Herbie and along the way develop a way to turn his urine into GOLD. All hail, King Burling

 

In all seriousness, TNZ gave it a red hot go, developed foiling, was duded by a time limit/length of course, wind limits etc etc. This experience and knowledge should be kept, passed on and built on.

 

As a dumb Aussie bowman who has never met these people and don't really care if they have a job tomorrow, my interest is only in seeing TNZ improve from the last AC so they can knock that cocky Ranga off his perch... Not sure why but he gets on my nerves

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Guest Ketchup

I think the discussion about toilets is more interesting.

If that's where you "heads at" then that explains everything :-).

 

What I am amazed at is the distinct lack of any passion and belief in ETNZ by all the sailors that visit this site.

 

I have out up some fairly good reasons why Barker and Dalton need to move on and besides knot me maybe replying with the usual spin, and IT making some good points the rest of the "so called passionate yachties" are conspicuous by their absense.

 

Kind of reflects the state of NZ sailing right now

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