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Davidson M20 vs Bonito 22 vs Sabre 20


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Dear Crew members,

 

Kia ora

 

Here is a newbie looking for a safe and roomy trailer sailor to accommodate recently expanded family. This pal has sea kayaked to and circumnavigated all Hauraki Islands except for the Barriers now looking for a bigger vessel for family adventures.

 

A lot of time will be spent in the Cabin so goodies like Noelex 22 have been excluded for this reason.

 

As it appears the standoff is between Davidson M20 and Bonito Aquarius 22. The M20 has had many upgrades, is cheaper and ready to sail. The Bonito is bigger, good looking and roomy but a tad more expensive and the rigs might need a little love before she set sails. the M20 is not as handsome but the cabin layout is excellent.

 

There is also a Sabre 20 but I have not found any reliable info about them.

 

Help this lad in choosing the better of the two or three.

 

YakSolo

 

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We've got a Bonito -- only have good things to report. They sail very nicely, are pretty well laid out, and are very forgiving. Quite heavy to tow -- Heavier than the often quoted ~1100kg. Mine is ~1850 including trailer -- so the boat itself is more like 1400-1450kg with very little gear apart from outboard.

 

Having the outboard in a well like the Bonito does is very good if you need to motor in rough weather for some reason, and makes them very manoeuvrable. But it is noisey in the cockpit.

 

Check both trailers well if you plan on towing -- I had to build a new trailer for mine, even though the trailer it was on looked OK when I bought it -- it had rusted away from the inside.

 

Don't know too much about the M20s -- they do seem to consistently go for a bit less $$ than the bonito, which implies they're a bit less desireable (for some reason??). Possibly slightly harder to sell than the bonito once you're ready to move on -- but trailer sailers are almost impossible to sell in general anyway.

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I am a fan of the M20, moderately ugly, but eminently practicle, probably the most spacious of the ones in that size range. The look is most likely the reason for the price difference. I think they are still being used as charter boats in the B.o.I. With good sails they sail well.

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The M20 has a good cabin layout/heaps of internal space.  Very easy to sail and handle but.. they sail like a bathtub in that they have a horrid sort of motion to them, something to do with the round shape of the hull I suppose.

 

I believe the Bonito is the better of the two.  There are many disadvantages to having the outboard in the cockpit (noisy, takes up floor space etc) however the advantages are good in a learner (easier handling, far superior if motoring in rough conditions etc)

 

Better is a Ross, much bigger and a far superior boat all round but I'm guessing that's beyond your budget (if you can even find one - they come up for sale and disappear pretty quickly again)

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I also have recently purchased a bonito and am very happy with it apart from the 5hp motor it came with is a bit underpowered when pushing in to fresh wind im looking to upgrade to a yamaha 8 if i can find one they are out of production at the moment.

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All three sail well, although the aquarius has a pinched stern so doesn't like big weather downhill.

The sabre has a short deep cockpit, which can get very cramped and it feels like you're stuck at the back.

 

Check out a Merlin 6.1, well built, roomy, and well balanced.

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Thanks for the info guys, much appreciated. I missed on the Sabre, still looking at bonito and am reluctant about M20 as its too ugly to my eyes. ;)

 

Anyone knows about VENTURA 20 TS? They look like a nice shape hull and good size cabin but there is hardly any info on them on internet.

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Hi yaksolo, I'm assuming you're familiar with the NZ Tailor Yacht Association?

 

http://www.nztya.nz/trailer-yacht-designs.html

 

They have some info there.  It's also worth looking at the ratings ( http://www.nztya.nz/nztya-ratings.html ) that gives you some idea of what the boat design is capable of.

 

What about a Caribou 20? They're in a similar class to all the idea's above, cheap as chips and apparently reasonable quick by comparison:

Design           Rating

Aqu/Bon 22    .760

Caribou 20     .757

Merlin 20        .703

Saber 20        .700

D20                .686

Ventura 20     .677

 

Incidentally, I have the dubious joy of sailing a Caribou on a reasonably regular basis and have usually been pleased with it's performance.  Sailed back from Man'o'war bay last summer in a 20 knot northerly -  top SOG 6.1knots.  Not fast, but given this was coming back from a week away, loaded up in full cruising mode including kids water toys and generally taking it easy, I was happy.  4.5 hours from the far end of Waiheke to the ramp in Okahu Bay was pretty good I thought.

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'Safe' is another matter for the Caribou though - SRI/Self Righting Index ratings look like:

 

Design   SRI

D20       .950

Aqu       .860

Sab       .690

Mer       .480

Car       .450

Ven       Data missing/unknown.

 

However, in 10 years neither the kids nor I have managed to roll the thing over despite our best efforts.  It'll just be a mission to get it back up in the event that we do is all.

 

All in all, out of this bunch the Aquarius/Bonito is looking the best.

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Thanks for the info. Yes I had seen these ratings before which seems to be more relevant to racing. I am a cruiser so doubt a knot or two drop in speed will affect me much. Knowing the yacht has good SRI is great but how these translate for a newbie cruiser out there? From your experience with Caribou, I would guess common sense and safe practice are more important than a high SRI index?

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The Self Righting Index is a calculation based on a formula that provides an indication on how well the boat will self right from a 90 degree heel (think knock down).  

 

It has nothing to do with speed and is all about safety.  The bigger the number the better hence Dambo's comment that the Aqu (0.860) is safer than the Car (0.450) for a 90 degree knock down as it is more likely to self right.

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Thanks for the info. Yes I had seen these ratings before which seems to be more relevant to racing. I am a cruiser so doubt a knot or two drop in speed will affect me much.  Yeah, the first post is about performance and racing but it gives you some indication of how capable a design is and how long it may take to get from a-b.  Over a long trip, the KPH adds up, as I said 4.5 hours from the other end of Waiheke isn't bad for trailer cruiser and about the max that kids can handle in my experience.

 

Knowing the yacht has good SRI is great but how these translate for a newbie cruiser out there? From your experience with Caribou, I would guess common sense and safe practice are more important than a high SRI index?

Yup, or at least I'd like to think so.  I think the main reason the Caribou scores so low is because the main hatch/companionway is off center and therefore may flood if knocked down to starboard - in which case you're screwed, or, when you hoist the kite, just make sure you only get knocked down to port ;-)   We've generally avoided dodgy conditions and never really had a knock down in it.

 

The Self Righting Index is a calculation based on a formula that provides an indication on how well the boat will self right from a 90 degree heel (think knock down).  

 

It has nothing to do with speed and is all about safety.  The bigger the number the better hence Dambo's comment that the Aqu (0.860) is safer than the Car (0.450) for a 90 degree knock down as it is more likely to self right.

Yeah.  Rating = speed, SRI = recovery from worst case scenario.

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Had a Davidson m20,roomy safe but slow,with a good motor into a decent headway they are like a tug boat,bow down and keep on going,we found with a reef in the main they did drive better to windward,15knts and a no2 on,family safe trailer boats

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I would be wary of these SRI figures.

I know of a number of cases over the years where boats this size have relatively low volume, so when they get knocked down, they can very easily flood through the hatchway. Twice, I know it was through the forward hatch straight after a kite hoist. Simple round up after it popped open and straight to the bottom.

SRI doesn't matter then.

I think J24s are very good at this also. I think its knowing that you are in a day sailor and sometimes a very comfortable day sailor and managing the risks.

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I would be wary of these SRI figures.

I know of a number of cases over the years where boats this size have relatively low volume, so when they get knocked down, they can very easily flood through the hatchway. Twice, I know it was through the forward hatch straight after a kite hoist. Simple round up after it popped open and straight to the bottom.

SRI doesn't matter then.

Yeah,... Farr 727?  

Always keep the forward hatch locked is safest.  I've seen the forward hatch of a Ross 930 underwater a couple of times - would have been pretty disastrous if it hadn't been locked/closed. 

I don't think anybody hoists from the hatch these days do they?

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