Why cant we buy this Antifoul

[Steve Pope 243]

What is light grey wet and forget antifoul??

[Battleship 100]

http://www.wetandforget.co.nz/products/marine/warpaint.html

[Chewing Gum 17]

Probably similar formulation to Warpaint which is probably not that dissimilar to Altex No 5.

[Kevin McCready 83]

Chewing gum, I'm guessing you mean don't use a water blaster on haulouts when you don't intend to sand back and reapply new AF?

[Fish 0]

Funny how people have different idea about how much growth is acceptable, I would sleep at night if my boat was a dirty as the previous photos. I get annoyed about a small layer of slime.

r.

Don't get me wrong, we knew the boat needed a clean for some time. The context was that we didn't touch the boat for 20 months due to family commitments, and that was as bad as it got. If we were using our previous international soft ablative, over that time we would have had serious fouling with grass and probably a good layer of mussels going on.

 

There is a wide range of performance and satisfaction reported by different people for the same a it foul. I wonder if there are some subtleties in the application and maintenance that make a big difference, I.e. Humidity or heat when applying, na dhow long it is left to dry before going back in. We left the copper coat for a while (weeks) before going back in. For the soft ablatives, I would think drying thoroughly gives a harder surface that ablates slower? If a professional with a travel lift does it, do they plonk it back in ASAP?

[armchairadmiral 411]

I've tried  a lot of  different antifouling paint over many years boating.. Singapore with a handful of DDT was good.Moved on with  all the 'latest and greatest' through the years.Epiglass,International,Hempels (lasted 3 months) Warpaint and others I've forgotten most times having to go back to the bare hull and start again. 7 years ago we went back for the last time.Not doing that agai come what may..2 coats of Interprotect and about 3 o fMicron 66.Just one antifoul recoat 31/2 yrs ago and will probably do it again next winter.Yes I look after it with regular wipes with a sponge but look at the upside.No annual sanding,masking,painting slipping etc.Micron 66 is a bargain for me plus a superb finish.And no ,I have no financial interest or other incentive to support Micron 66

[Chewing Gum 17]

Chewing gum, I'm guessing you mean don't use a water blaster on haulouts when you don't intend to sand back and reapply new AF?

Yes that is correct - waterblast only when repainting

[wheels 543]

Fish, I doubt application would cause much difference with CopperCoat. What would cause differences, would be where the Boat is moored/berthed. Things like water temp, light, nutrients, tidal flow and where in the Country the boat is will all make a difference. And that applies to any AF for that matter. The beauty of CC is in it's simplicity. It is just Pure copper held onto the Hull by Epoxy. Sanding just exposes the pure copper particles and many organisms don't like pure copper. Except for a couple like the growth that is showing in the Pic.That stuff is controlled by a type of Zinc which is the Biocide in the Ablatives.
         For ablatives and similar depleting AF's, it is important that the AFs are allowed to dry, but immersed within a time specified. The Solvents must be allowed to escape, so as the coating forms correctly as it drys. I have heard of people dunking the boat right after coating, but the problem is that the Solvent leaches into the water, which is not good, and as a solvent molecule leaves the coating, a water molecule can immediately take it's place. Thus the coating never hardens properly.

[Kevin McCready 83]

Thought I'd look at the Altex AYB No.5 Antifouling NZ Safety Sheet. It didn't define TWA or STEL or TEEL but did tell me that mice who got too much exposure "produced signs of marked central nervous system (CNS) depression, including prostration after 2 hours, narcosis after 3 hours and some deaths". So if I see anyone lying down on the job ....

 

Then again, from the Australian Safety Sheet - "Some thiocarbamates are structurally similar to disulfiram and may cause the characteristically unpleasant alcohol type reactions lasting for several hours"

 

Altex ABY No. 5 Antifoul Composition
copper(I) oxide    40 - 50%
zinc oxide         10 - 20%
n-butanol          10 - 20%
xylene             10 - 20%
rosin-colophony    1 - 10%
thiram             1 - 10%

etc

 

For Altex No 5 you can leave it out of the water for as long as you like (Phew, one less thing to worry about)

Dry Times (75 μm DFT / 25°C / 50% RH):
To Recoat - Minimum 4 hours
- Maximum Not critical
To Launch - Minimum 8 hours
- Maximum  Not critical

 

But seriously, chewing gum on the water blasting has got me thinking. The info sheet says "With the correct preparation it can be applied over existing copper based antifouling". Preparation for a repaint is,

 

"High pressure water clean (5,000 – 10,000 psi / 330 –
660 bar) to remove all marine growth, hydrolysed antifouling, salts,
loose paint and any other foreign matter."

 

"OR: Low pressure water clean (3,000 psi / 200 bar minimum) to
remove all marine growth, hydrolysed antifouling, salts, loose paint
and any other foreign matter.
AND - Wet sand the surface with 80 grit sandpaper to ensure total
removal of any remaining contaminants, including residual
hydrolysed antifouling and slime. Rinse thoroughly."

 

"The cleaned surface, once dry should be free of any powdered
antifouling residues and should be inspected for defects in the film.
Existing anti-fouling must be secure and intact, and not excessively
overbuilt."

 

"Repairs to the coating system should be completed before the
application of any subsequent coat of antifouling. To ensure good
adhesion, any exposed primers / undercoats should be thoroughly
sanded (p80 grit), dedusted & coated with the appropriate primer
before application of any antifouling."

 

"Thorough wet sanding is recommended at the waterline, as the wet
/ dry cycle and UV exposure can cause premature failure if brittle or
crazy cracked coatings remain." So that is good info re my earlier question about getting marine growth up higher up the sides of Storm Fantasy now that it's in Okahu Bay.

[tuffyluffy 76]

Yes that is correct - waterblast only when repainting

 

I'll second that comment! I once won a free lift and wash at the local club, only to watch $600 of Petit Vivid soft ablative AF run down the drain.

 

It was a free clean but it wasn't cheap!

[Black Panther 1,581]

Update - two weeks in the Weiti River and she's almost spotless!!!!!!! Is it the brackish water killing the salty growth, or the current ripping everything off?

 

Who knows? Still investigating copper coat. Just worried how much prep will be needed.

[ScottiE 174]

Altex #5 still?

[Black Panther 1,581]

yes, it was put on in May, by Oct was looking bloody awful, then we moved to Weiti Xmas and everything fell off.

[ex TL systems 63]

For coppercoat it must be totally clear of old antifoul , maybe soda blast? we did it by hand and it took a week of hard work and still was  best to put on a coat of interprotect or similiar primer, but once done when you wipe clean you will not be losing antifoul or organising repainting every year.  The actual application was ok and done in 1 day by 3 of us, needs to be kept dry for at least 24 hrs though.  Interesting that Weiti is so clean Tamaki river is real bad for growth.

[rigger 47]

Perhaps Weiti river has a lower salt content than Tamaki river?

[John B 106]

I've found that 66 needs to be periodically reactivated by hard scrubbing , scotchbrite or similar. It can get an oxidised finish to it , particularly around the waterline and that needs to go. Its the gift that keeps on giving for me.

I have read somewhere that it doesn't like brackish water.

[Steve Pope 243]

Just a thought, perhaps a little Tongue in cheek, I have been reading about how pervasive Glyphosate (roundup) is in many of our processed foods, stock being fed GE corn that has been sprayed with it and coming on to us in the meat we eat, of seeds being treated with it so that they are resistant right from the start and are eliminating bees from the environment Etc.Etc. Could it be  we could "safely" use "Glyphosate" in our antifouling paint to get on top of the barnacles, fan worms, wild oysters et-al. I use the term safely in the sense that surely we can't be growled at or punished for using a poison that is the most commonly used weed control in the terrestrial world???

[DrWatson 374]

So, Copper Coat boast 10y protection... I'm wondering if that's in "racing condition" or just "no worms eating your keel planking". 

 

From reading their promo material, it's basically copper plating the bottom of your boat in a "better" way.

 

If you have copper coat, when you sail to the BOI from AKL, do you still need to prove you hauled and painted less than 12 (?) months ago?

[wheels 543]

 

I have been reading about how pervasive Glyphosate (roundup) is in many of our processed foods, stock being fed GE corn that has been sprayed with it and coming on to us in the meat we eat, of seeds being treated with it so that they are resistant right from the start and are eliminating bees from the environment Etc.Etc. Could it be  we could "safely" use "Glyphosate" in our antifouling paint to get on top of the barnacles, fan worms, wild oysters et-al. I use the term safely in the sense that surely we can't be growled at or punished for using a poison that is the most commonly used weed control in the terrestrial world???

It's bogus Steve. This started by a blog back in 2014, although could have started earlier. It's a mixture of several points and has become a tangled mess as it gets pushed around. The original comment was that US farmers were using Glyphosate as a dessicant on their Harvested Grain. Thus Glyphosate then entered the food chain. This practice is not known to have ever happened. It is possible a Farmer or two may have tried it and perhaps that triggered the original story, but it is not something that is common, if at all.

One of the stories was that someone eating Wheat products in the US had Stomach issues and when they went to Italy, they had no issues. But Italy imports 40% of their Wheat from the US and the particlur products the person was eating had a very high probability of being from that US imported product.

The main positive point of Glyphosate is that it breaks down in the environment very quickly. The reason it is not so deadly to animals an us like other Herbicides are, is in how it works. It inhibits a particular enzyme that Plants need. So it does not work on Animals and I am unsure that Seaweeds would use the same enzyme process, so it is possible it won't work on Sea weeds.

 

 

[wheels 543]

 

So, Copper Coat boast 10y protection... I'm wondering if that's in "racing condition" or just "no worms eating your keel planking". 

 

From reading their promo material, it's basically copper plating the bottom of your boat in a "better" way.

Yes. It still requires cleaning and sanding. If you are a racing boat and do that regularly anyway, then it is worth it because it increases the time between cleans. But as a Cruiser, I still don't see the point. You still need to haul and clean.

I did an experiment by immersing a piece of solid copper in the water and leaving it and after a year, it had plenty of growth all over it.