Prawn 0 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Hey, can someone throw some light on this, we're new keeler owners and not sure about our engine indicator light 'AMP'. When we start up the inboard, the 'AMP' light comes on after about a minute and stays on for about half an hour. (The other 2 indicator lights come on and off within a few seconds of start up.) I believe that normally if the light stays on, it means that the engine is isn't charging and so you have a problem...? We were told in our case though, that if the AMP light is on, it actually means that the engine IS charging the battery. However after about half an hour the light goes off. Does this mean that the house and engine battery is 'full' and no longer needs to be charged? Or do we have a problem? We notice that a voltmeter shows 12 volts (there is solar power as well) and when the engine is on it shows 14 volts when the AMP light is ON, and also I think when the AMP light is off. Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 The 14V is your key to what is working. If you start the engine and the Volts rise to 14, then the battery is being charged. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brendon 0 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 A little unusual, but the voltage readings sound about right. So it sounds like the AMP light is telling you that the system is charging at more than a threshold level, when it goes out it would not mean that the batteries are 100% fully charged, more like they have finished the bulk part of their charge, perhaps up to about 80%, it takes a lot of time to charge any further which is the absorption phase. My other thought is that there may be a modern smart regulator fitted. Such as this one http://www.smartregulator.co.nz/ These supply an initial high current and then after a period switch down to a float - low current output These provide a better regulated charge for modern batteries and saves batteries from overcharging. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
erice 732 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 what engine do you have? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Battleship 100 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Yep sounds like some sort of smart charger although 14 is a little on the low side, adsorption should be around 14.5 - 14.7 for a normal lead acid and around 13.5 - 13.7 for float. What type of batteries are in the vessel? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Prawn 0 Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 Thanks for your info everyone! Will look closer at the voltmeter too, 14 volts was just approximate. The battery is "lead acid one starter one deep cycle Bukh DV10". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
erice 732 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 does it have a generator (really old, long and slim) alternator, new car style -( short + fat ) or even a dynastart thingy that is the starter and generator at the same time? http://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Sailing/General/Bukh-DV10-sail-drive-is-not-charging-the-batteries/ found this on the 20hp version I would suspect the PCB distribution plate interfacing the alt charge light, temp & oil pressure senders & alarm.The old design of the board is well known to cause problems. So much so I unnecessarily replaced both the alarm buzzer & the temp sender, but with persistent problems still, eventually realised it was the distribution board itself. There are a number of threads from past years on this topic. I eventually resolved the problem entirely (so far,touch wood) by uprating the diode/resistors on a spare Bukh 20 board passed on to me by Mistroma of this parish. The background to this upgrading is outlined via this link:http://www.inadee.co.uk/fulmar.htm -scroll down to replacement distribution plateThe link also identifies the 3 indicator lights on the circuit diagram, but to spp answer your question they are from top to bottom, alt charge, oil pressure, engine temp.You can get pdfs basic owner smanual and the service manual from quite a few free sites eg some here: http://www.earlhill.de/download.htmlRead more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?389202-Bukh-experience-with-the-charging-system-anyone#MEPUAmYXgER6bVsM.99 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Ive seen a similar thing on a 24v large balmar Alt. It had the charge light effectively backwards to the norm - ie it was on when charging, and off when not. Balmar sell a special wiring harness to "correct" it!! Stupid. In your case I'd suspect, as per erice's post above, the alarm circuit board. Check the volts as per previous post - Initial charge for FLA should be around 14.7v, float say 13.4. However, if I were you I'd not take anyone's word for it (including mine) and get a make and model form the batteries, then look up the manufacturers recommended voltages. Best to be certain. The correct voltages will prolong the useful life of the batts. Sometimes by years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brendon 0 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 When I said the voltage is about right, I was assuming it was approximate using an analogue voltmeter on the panel, such as many yachts have. it is a good idea to check with a digital volt meter to get an accurate idea as messages above state. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I had assumed that Brendon. If you have a Charge regulator, then as the others have said above, there are specific voltages for each charging step. But in a ruff nutshell, if the voltage rises when you start the engine, the Alt is charging. They tend to work or not work. If you have an external reg, then it can be a little more technical.I was not sure what you were meaning by AMP light. Are you referring to a charge indicator light on the dash panel, or is AMP referring to something specific. I know of Ample Power charge regulators, was that what you were referring to? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Prawn 0 Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 We have an alternator. The lights are 'warning lamps' for the oil pressure, electrical charge - labelled "AMP", and water temperature. . Yay, happy that it sounds like no serious problems, so we don't have to sit on the jetty over Christmas. Will check out manuals etc and get sparky in to check out and change back to 'normal' indications once the busyness of Christmas and holidays are over. We also discovered that the earthing wire leading to the keel bolt isn't actually attached to anything. Sits under a metal tray under the engine. So if anyone knows where that should be attached let us know.... Cheers everyone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 If the earth wire is connected to the Keel Bolt, then the othert end needs to connect to the engine block at the same place as the battery earth is connected to the Engine block. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
erice 732 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 if you have a volt meter wired in basically you are looking for 1 . a base voltage of 12 - 13 volts indicated with ignition switched on 2. a drop from the base voltage of about 1/2 a volt while cranking 3. a jump from the base voltage of about a volt to 13 -14 volts while engine running if you've got that you're gold a bad charging cct will show 1 + 2 above but not 3 you've got to have the jump above the base voltage once engine running for the battery to charge quickly and replace the amps lost starting the engine so it can be started several times a day a solar panel can trickle charge a battery only asked to start once a week. and mask a bad alternator but solar alone won't be able to keep up with the multiple starts of a sailing holiday Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 if you have a volt meter wired in basically you are looking for 1 . a base voltage of 12 - 13 volts indicated with ignition switched on 2. a drop from the base voltage of about 1/2 a volt while cranking 3. a jump from the base voltage of about a volt to 13 -14 volts while engine running if you've got that you're gold a bad charging cct will show 1 + 2 above but not 3 you've got to have the jump above the base voltage once engine running for the battery to charge quickly and replace the amps lost starting the engine so it can be started several times a day a solar panel can trickle charge a battery only asked to start once a week. and mask a bad alternator but solar alone won't be able to keep up with the multiple starts of a sailing holiday Half a volt drop while starting? You must have a reaaaaaly little starter motor erice. It s not uncommon for voltages to drop to 9V or even lower. I Quote Link to post Share on other sites
erice 732 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 as dr.karl would say do the experiment record the results https://youtu.be/gN4uTBCQrIc re-evaluate 1. base voltage 13v 2. a drop from base voltage of 1/2 volt when glow plugs switched on 3. a further drop of 2 volts when cranking 4. a jump from the base voltage of about 2 volts to 15 - 16 volts at fast idle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Yes, 2V is more like it erice. It does depend on size of starter of course. Some big engines can take a huge amount of power. We have 1800CCA for our engine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Prawn 0 Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 Thanks for your continued info all. And great video! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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