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Water in bilge


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I had something similar a few years back.  Till i discovered the rudder tube (was a spade rudder in a tube)  leaked at the base of the tube where it exited the hull. had to take it out put some goop on it, then pour epoxy/glass mix around the area on the inside of the hull. that fixed it for good.  At rest  it didn't leak but with the rudder working at sea there was enough movement to cause water to come into the boat..

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Since the excess water in bilge day, we have been for out a handful of times including a decent sail where water sprayed us in the cockpit and the mugs in the galley locker had tipped over. The bilge was 'dry' apart from a little bit probably coming from the stern gland which is not only acceptable but preferable from my limited understanding of these mechanisms.  So. I'm thinking now that the mini flood of water we had that day was most likely due to us changing the engine's raw water filter a few days earlier.  Even though I thought we'd caught and mopped up all the excess water at the time, there must have been some lurking about hidden 'below', which came out during the shake up of a full on sail!

 

Still it's really good to know all the potential trouble spots that you guys have experienced so if there's ever another leak we are now armed with info on how to find!

 

Thanks everyone!

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stuffing boxes should leak a little when motoring,done up tight and your putting wear on gland,about 1 or 2 drips a minute.

when you changed the raw water impeller did you do the bearings and shaft seals??

 

we had water and thought not the damn stern seal again,on closer inspection water marks around pump so changed impeller bearing and shaft seals,no more water.  On sunday found a small leak on engine anode changed and resealed so all good now.

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It was seawater.  We didn't do the bearings and shaft seals this time but good to know for future reference.

 

The leaking in bilge is very minor now, so of no concern!

 

One thing we have been doing while sailing is putting the gear lever in reverse.  That day we had lots of water in the bilge after sailing we had the gear in a forward position....So maybe that had something to do with it....AND/OR the changing the raw water strainer the time before....

 

All's well.  Relief!

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Many boxes need to be locked from being able to free turn. Make sure your boats Gearbox is OK to leave free spinning. There are many boxes that will not tolerate being left free spinning without the motor running.
For boxes that can free spin with no issues, neutral is usually the preferred position and most certainly a good habit. You just never know what situation you maybe in when you start the engine. Left in gear just may push you in to something you weren't prepared for.
Borg Warner's Hydraulic Box is one of the few that does not matter about free spinning, because the engine must be running to produce oil pressure to engage the clutch. It has only one large gear coupled to the output shaft and this sits in oil and lubricates the bearing and seal.
Some boxes are of a design that the front gears are the ones that pick up the oil and lube all the bearing and seals. Some of these boxes are able to be free spin, with the provision that you engage briefly every so many hrs to allow oil to be picked up and sent around the gearbox.
There are a couple of boxes that you must never allow to free spin for long at all and these require a shaft brake to lock the shaft from spinning.
And of course there are the best of all worlds, the folding propeller, that reduces drag and doesn't cause the shaft to spin.
So read your manual and ensure you are doing what is required, or you maybe waiting in line with ChrisC and IT for parts or a new gearbox.
     Oh and I did write a very comprehensive list many years ago, that stated what was allowed for each make and model of box. It will be on CF, so if anyone is there and they see it, copy it and send it to my PM box and I can edit it and post it here.

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the hurth ZF repair manual says

 

IMPORTANT When the boat is sailing (engine stopped), the gear lever must be in zero pos-ition. Never put the gear lever in the pos-ition corresponding to the direction of travel of the boat. Locking the propeller shaft by an additional brake is not required: use the gear lever position opposite your direction of travel for this purpose.

 

http://www.plaisance-pratique.com/IMG/pdf/repair_manual_zf_gearbox.pdf

 

Check the oil level in the gearbox about once a month. Correct oil level: index mark on dipstick (see item 3.2). Always use the same oil grade when topping up. Don’t overfill the gearbox. This will create higher operating temperatures.

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Oh crikey.  So we could be doing damage!  

 

My other half tells me we have a pressurised stuffing box.  My initial understanding was that by having it in gear it stops the propellor spinning and therefore stops the water getting in.  Since there is no counter pressure when you are sailing (and not using the engine), water can get in.

 

I'll check our manuals!

 

Thanks for warning.

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We've got a ZF BW7 gear box and I found some confusing advise on the internet...

 

http://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/who-has-a-zf-bw7-transmission.134729/

 

The manual says one thing, all the dealers say another....Very confusing for newbies like us.

 

We spoke to someone moored near us who seems very on to it and he advised us to put it in reverse while sailing, which is what our sailing mate also said.  

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If you find yourself in the position where the dealer and manufacturers advice conflict, try to get a written instruction from either one of them.

 

That said, most transmissions can be left in reverse when sailing, so the shaft does not turn, without damage. This is normal, but it really does pay to check the manual, and the manufactures written instructions. Not mine, some other internet guru,nor the dealers, but the manufacturers. Get it in writing if it is not in the owners manual.

 

Oh, and a folding or feathering prop makes the world of difference!

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I have a Kiwiprop, a Volvo 120S sail drive and have been following the Kiwiprop instructions to leave the gearbox in ahead position while sailing.  I tried reverse for a while but it seem to lock there and couldn't be freed manually without starting the motor while still in gear.  It is an interesting point that Kiwiprops make that the manufacturer recommendations don't take into account the propeller type.

 

http://www.kiwiprops.co.nz/cms/index.php/resources-general/sailing-in-gear

 

 

 

Sailing in gear

Auto rotation can be initiated by many things  from fouling of the blades - barnacles etc to picking up a piece of seaweed on a blade.

It is for that reason we recommend leaving the unit in forward once feathered to prevent any further rotation.

Reverse should always be avoided because if the unit - or any type of prop - fixed / feathering / auto prop were to engage and slowly rotate the motor over as compression was lost in each cylinder in turn it is possible for the engine to suck back seawater from the exhaust lock …   enough said.

 

They then go on to say how crap the Volvo 120S units are due to the cone type clutch .... great!

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Ferrari, I have the same saildrive as you. Read the same thing, as I have a kiwiprop as well. I have about 10000 hours on the saildrive before this current failure, and, to get the prop to feather I find I need to put it in reverse. Where it sticks as you said. I leave it there when sailing.

I just start it in gear, and it immediately unsticks. Never had a clutch issue, but I wore out the selector dog and groove, both replaced about a year ago.

The latest issue, caused I think by wear and loss of tension in the spring washers in the vertical shaft, allowed the shaft retaining collects to fall out when moved too quickly from ahead to reverse. Hope to have the parts tomorrow and gearbox reassembled and re installed in a few days.

IMO the 120S is a good unit.

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With regards to what gear. The ZF boxes should not be placed in forward when the engine is not running. Neutral is OK, and leaves the shaft free spinning. If you have a folding prop, then select reverse. This locks the shaft from spinning and the water flow is what folds the prop closed.
Never select forward. All the internal gear sets are spun up all the way to a little clutch pack sitting in one of the gear sets and this will be damaged.

But as I said earlier, make sure you check with the manual for your particular make of box. Just because Hurth/ZF boxes need to go one way does not mean all boxes are the same.

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rang yanmar today to find out exactly what i should do,forward neutral or reverse gear. being a yanmar with their box they firmly believe neutral. different yanmar sites confirmed this. yet kiwi prop says keep in forwards.

 

Sailing in gear

Auto rotation can be initiated by many things  from fouling of the blades - barnacles etc to picking up a piece of seaweed on a blade.

It is for that reason we recommend leaving the unit in forward once feathered to prevent any further rotation.

Reverse should always be avoided because if the unit - or any type of prop - fixed / feathering / auto prop were to engage and slowly rotate the motor over as compression was lost in each cylinder in turn it is possible for the engine to suck back seawater from the exhaust lock …   enough said.

 

http://www.kiwiprops.co.nz/cms/index.php/resources-general/sailing-in-gear

 

 

 

gets awfully complicated

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Nah, not really. But so you really are covered, I'd do that by email - so you have written instructions. What Yanmar have effectively told you is that it is fine for their gearbox to auto-rotate. Kiwiprop say fwds to stop the autorotation and make the prop feather. With the prop feathered there should be no autorotation, and the gearbox will be fine as it is not moving. SO, neutral is ok, but fwd is better if you can hear the gearbox rotating while sailing, or see the shaft rotating (once in fwd it should stop completely). No movement with a feathered prop will give you the least drag :-)

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You would have to have either one heck of a big prop or a lot of speed, or a teeny weeny motor for a prop to ever be able to turn a Diesel over.
That does remind me of a story though. A guy had a flat battery and he winched his anchor to the top of the mast, wrapped the other end of the halyard around the flywheel and then dropped the anchor, which turned over the engine fast enough to start it. Or so his story went.

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