Jump to content

Fire Extinguisher Advice


Recommended Posts

 

Its interesting the support for foam, I was under the impression that it wasn't suitble for electrical

 If you go by the normal Land based fire fighting, then correct. Electrical is usually Mains related and you don't want to go spraying water on high Voltage area's. Where as on a Boat, it is usually 12/24V related and it is not so much and electrical fire, but rather that the electrics have started a fire.

I have considered a fire situation on our boat from a couple of different angles and due to having a couple of incidents in the past that could have been really bad. Just lucky they were not. Anyway, we don't have time to mess around on a Boat. The materials are far too combustible. The area's are far too confined. And we may not always be close to a Marina, so being able to continue a journey could be as important as putting the fire out was. 

 

rossd, yep the Foam spray that comes out as water is the one I was thinking off and have used. Just recently I might add.

So is that what is listed as "wet chemical"in the chart above?

 

Interesting, I did not know that powder was not good for Fat fires. I thought that was the best thing to have in the Kitchen at home and Galley on the Boat.

Link to post
Share on other sites

A pan or pot of fat or oil on fire can be very dangerous, turn off the gas or power/fuel and cover the pot , ideally with the lid but a baking tray , fireblanket damp tea towel etc will also work to smother the fire. Then  wait for it to cool before removing the lid or moving the pot. We do a kitchen fire demo at work, where we drop half a cup of water into the pot on fire, creates a fireball around 3m high, DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME.A water based extinquisher would have the same effect as the water turns to steam and blows the oil up and out., If you drop the pot while trying to carry it outside the result is usually the same as  the burning oil spreads everywhere. If you fire an extinquisher at the pot too forcefully it will also cause the oil to spread.  BTW we went to a pretty serious fire the other day that may have been caused by small lithium batteries on charge,took out  half of the house. 

 

Lots of info on the NZFS  fire.org.nz site  including free help if you have any children that are playing with matches etc

Link to post
Share on other sites

think foil, fire blankets

 

best for fat fires in pans

 

actually

 

tight lid slid over from the side better

 

but who thinks of that

 

edit

 

as above

 

don't like leaving cell phone on charge overnight...

Link to post
Share on other sites

petrol in an approved sealed container is fairly safe, but if you can smell petrol you have a leak, and a potentially explosive mixture,which is heavier than air and can travel a fair way. If there is an ignition source you may not have to worry about abandoning ship, you may just get blown over the side. If you have a fire that melts a 10 or 20 litre container and it lets go then you are unlikely to be able to do anything more than escape, if you have smoke alarms you have a good chance of putting out a fire while it is still small  and before it would melt a full petrol container, remember you can boil water in a papercup over a candle without the cup catching fire as the liquid is absorbing all the heat.

 there are small smoke alarms available now with 10 year batterys, less than $60. A developed fire on a boat is abandon ship time but stay close the black plume  and orange flames may attract your rescuers. An alloy boat with plenty of fuel and air will melt to the waterline and sink , a steel boat may survive but would likely sink because of failed thru hulls, so eventually at least the fire will go out.

 

Ventilate your cockpit fuel locker, allow it to drain outside, isolate it from inside and ignition sources, and find a way to transfer petrol without spilling any. Fumes/vapour in the cockpit should get away ok but if not windy and in a closed transom cockpit then  vapour could potentially flow down through an open companionway where there is possible ignition sources.,

Still we don,t get a lot of fires at petrol stations and there is always lots of petrol vapour and ignition sources around. The ratio of air to fuel has to be within certain limits to get the explosion. People get burnt lighting fires with petrol when it flashes back from the match to the open container, DON,T TRY THIS AT HOME

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

rossd, yep the Foam spray that comes out as water is the one I was thinking off and have used. Just recently I might add.

So is that what is listed as "wet chemical"in the chart above?

 

Interesting, I did not know that powder was not good for Fat fires. I thought that was the best thing to have in the Kitchen at home and Galley on the Boat.

Is wet chemical not a product that reacts with the fat and forms some form of non flammable surface to the fat?

 

I have first hand experience of a DP extinguisher on a fat fire - it sure worked, but then the bastard decided to reignite as the powder dispersed on the surface. CO2 has a similar effect and water is just plain dangerous as mentioned above. Whats best is a Wife who does not forget she turned a pan of oil on 30 minutes ago and then went outside!. The outcome was ok though, the DP extinguisher quenched the flames that were starting to get into the wood behind the stove and now we have nice tiles there covering the damage :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

I got a phone call late one night from my Mum, she had put a pan with oil on the stove then went outside and the door blew shut behind her. By the time I got there I could see it on the stove and it was very hot. I picked it up and it burst into flames. Was a big mental effort not to drop it immediately, but got it onto the concrete driveway and let it burn out. Scary sh*t. Keep a look out for old people.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I got a phone call late one night from my Mum, she had put a pan with oil on the stove then went outside and the door blew shut behind her. By the time I got there I could see it on the stove and it was very hot. I picked it up and it burst into flames. Was a big mental effort not to drop it immediately, but got it onto the concrete driveway and let it burn out. Scary sh*t. Keep a look out for old people.

 

You don,t have to look far to see old people BP ;-) Anything like that  ​call the fire service on 111 they will check that the fire is not into the wall or ceiling, no charge and helps with the insurance claim too.

Link to post
Share on other sites

With the burning pot you really are better to not try to move it until it has cooled, turn off the heat, cover it with the lid or fireblanket etc. and wait until it has cooled, shut doors to limit smoke or fire spread and call 111 from a safe place , make sure everyone is outside.  If you drop a hot pot of oil or fall over with it you will be badly burnt clothes on fire etc.  Saw my Dad do it years ago , he managed to get the smoking chip pan full of oil out the back door and threw it off the balcony, fireball was pretty impressive. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME 

Link to post
Share on other sites

That chart Beccara posted needs to be viewed with a bit of flexibility. It is for the ideal situation in there view, like a fish and chip shop may have a wet chemical. But powder would be OK as well and would knock it down quick but as noted can re ignite . Foam spray would put it out a bit slower but not likely to reignite. Foam spray is not wet chemical,foam spray is not even in that chart.   As for electrical rating and foam spray, rather a long story. When Firewatch set up here about 27 years ago the English owner brought in UK Thorn Foam Spray extinguishers. These were certified under UK standards as well as ISO for use on fires around live electrical equipment. The test they passed was 25000 volts AC at a distance of one metre. The reason they can do this is they have a small rotating disk in the nozzle that atomisers the stream. Foam spray was not in the NZ Standard and infact probably still isnt and firewatch set about getting it included as well as recognizing  the UK electrical test. It never happened.  Standards are a bit of a strange thing in that they are basically written by the big players in the relevant industry. Ones like Wormald at the time had a lot of power and didnt want this foam spray in the standard especially with a electrical rating and so blocked it. They had been taught since babies that water based extinguishers are no good on electrical. Firewatch gave up on the battle and subsequent owners didnt bother with it and went on to selling mainly dry powder.  Because Foam spray is not in the standard it doesn't find its way into recommendations which is why it is not in that chart above or even mentioned in YNZ Saftey regs.  However i am sure a cat one inspecter would pass them especially if you have around 6 litres total, no doubt KM will find out in due course.  Just a thought I am not saying all foam spray brands and models sold here have an electrical rating you would have to check.         

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok - Mr Firewatch North shore said the little powder ones are cheap to replace (keep the old ones the same way you would old flares) but I probably should have more capacity, and bring in the big CO2 and they should be able to service it cost effectively . Seemed to know what he was talking about.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't do that Steve, regs state how much FUEL you must carry. For your engine. Km have you actually discussed that with an inspector? The "rules" are not, like many seem to think, carved in stone. Inspectors have some discretion....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to re-ignite[!] this topic, but I was checking my extinguishers the other day and noted that they were quite old [ ahem - 15years ]. I sought advice from my qualified fire techie who said that , a] yes they need replacing. b] the dry powder ones do work well, BUT, c] if I used one, I could just about write off anything it touched since removing the chemical powder afterwards was almost impossible.

She suggested that the best for boats is CO2 foam, because the electrical problem doesn't exist for boats, being only 12/24v, and that it's reasonably easy to clean up afterwards, and the presence of foam means that re-ignition is much less likely. She has LOTS of experience putting out real fires, but no experience of boats.

Any comments? What does everyone else use?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...