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Has anyone bought overseas and saved big $?


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Ive heard buying from europe can save some serious money on boats, or more so you can get a newer yacht for your money.

 

Im looking at Benetaus, 36~ft. Outside them Im not really familiar with other brands.

 

Our family live in Middle Europe.

 

Im just wondering what the sail back is like and if its easier to pay someone to do it (I have a friend who does this as a part time income).

 

And in the end, do you really get a newer boat for your money?

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Remember production line boats are like modern cars, not necessarily built to last a long time. Plus ex charter boats are like ex rentals generally well flogged and sold at the point they are likely to need serious refit or / and repair. Just saying.

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By the time you get back to NZ, you likely wont make anything, but will have had a great experience. a 36ft Bene is not my first choice for a voyage 1/2 way around the world.

 

The sail home is a big mixture, coastal, short hops and long ocean passages. longest bit is likely to be about 3 weeks at sea, non stop. You must be prepared for all conditions.

 

I have several customers who have bought offshore, and in the end have not got the "bargains" they thought they would. If you sold the boat in NZ after this trip and broke even, you're doing well.

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I did this about 10 years ago and it was worthwhile then, but things have changed i.e. the NZ second hand market has bombed and boats here are a lot cheaper now than they were back in the mid 2000's.

 

As IT says, you probably wont make a buck, but you'll probably get a great adventure and a cheap holiday.

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If  a production European yacht is what you want then this is a great way to get it, as long as you can take the time off work. We all have the internet now so you wont make money come selling time, but the boat will have cost you a lot less upfront and if its the one you want then you wont be selling...

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well with the economy about to drop its guts like booze pooze, i wouldnt be offering 60% on current asking prices anyway, if i get a goodie ill take it, if not ill wait for a number of years until im ready

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Who's economy?
As already said above, many have tried this and it has not been as cheap as they hoped. I have herd many stories of the ex charter sailboats. They are cheap because they are seriously tired and the cheap production builds don't stand up well to high use. Why? Well if you take a close look, everything is built light. The wood panels are not solid. The Hull is lightly made. The Rigging is light. The list goes on.
The last thing I would be buying is a Bendy Boat. Bringing one of them back here to NZ is only adding to the ever increasing problem we have here in NZ, that we have far too many of these cheap boats here on the market already and they have been one of the reasons why our Market has suffered so badly.
If you want a good Blue water capable boat, buy a NZ built one.

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I'm not sure if that's correct.  Many production boats are desirable.  Many production boats are well built.  Many kiwi built boats are poorly maintained, some badly built.  Given the age of many 'kiwi' built boats on the market they also need major work.  I walked an Auckland marina just last night with my son and the number of import boats vs kiwi boats is probably close to 50/50 i'd say. 

 

Many many bendy boats are sailed with success to NZ.  Please identify a case where a Bendy boat coming to NZ has broken up.  Given the large number sailed here i'd estimate the failure rate is very low.  I think they offer many advantages, nice layout, sail reasonably well, make great cruisers and family boats, many may be purchased in the US in great condition and with good gear on them for a good price.  Top that you get to see the world and sail it home.  

 

Sure they have weaknesses but boat ownership is sometimes about compromise.  I've just been through this process of local boat vs offshore built and in my case looking locally at the 12.20 fleet most I looked at needed very significant work to get them to a usable offshore sailing condition.  A late 90's Jeanneau is a good option and can be quite well built depending on the model.  

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Are the Bendy boats the only options for european boats?

 

Im finding the same size boat made in the 2000s vs Farr etc made in 1980s that look really thrashed for the money being asked. Of course what people are asking and what they will get are 2 very different things.

 

And yes imo NZs RE market (Auck will start it) is now softening and will start to decline, and when it does and we have already borrowed 100s of millions to protect us from the 2008 GFC, people then foolishly over inflated the property market by creating our own Mortgage bubble that created the GFC, so as a consumer nation (lets be real, we produce milk and lamb and some false advertising tourism) once peoples properties go down (oh no that could never happen in NZ) and they have borrowed money agains this fictitious capital gains to buy a boat or a car, this retail market keeping our economy afloat will pop, which will compound the property market by rising interest rates, I know some people paying $1000pw in mortgages, what will they do when they suddenly owe $3000pw and their property is worth 30% less? Banktruptcy thats what. 

 

Do you think John Key will be around to answer questions? No instead hes left it to Bill English to raise our retirement age to 67, so the baby boomers got a free ride in University and now want us to pay for their retirement by making us retire older. But id imagine NZ will be a state of Australia but 2037 the way our economy has been handled.

 

The perfect time to buy a boat and a house.

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Baby boomers are responsible for all the worlds ills. Millenials et al are always the victims.The world owes them all a living. The products of a failed social engineering experiment.  BTW NZ won't be a State of Oz. why would they want a bunch of bleating sheeple ?

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We did this s in 2014 as we couldn't find a kiwi yacht around 50' that wasn't either close to $1m or 4-500k but 30 years old and needed the same spent on it

We would have preferred a real kiwi yacht but they cost so much to build as a one off that we all think we should get 90% back after 10 years which still wasn't affordable for us

We are happy with what we have for what we spent, had a great trip back and would do it again tomorrow

Won't know if it was fiscally positive until the day we sell which isn't in the near future, but it did allow us to do it within our budget.

So it was either euro trash or not at all

 

One thing I'd suggest is don't consider ex charter yachts, there are plenty of private vessels available, sure they are a little dearer but well worth the extra

 

Twosail if your thinking 10 years out I wouldn't rush, there is a lot more correction yet to come in the NZ market, our last yacht has probably dropped a third since we sold in 2014 looking at current market and probably hasn't hit bottom yet

 

It really comes down to what you want to do, if you sail it back yourself then you can claim 10% depreciation per year but if you pay someone or ship it then you pay gst/duty on the total cost including all fees crew costs or shipping and commissioning

So I'd say there's nothing in it cost wise re buying a kiwi yacht and refitting it or buying new import here.

 

I've always sold my yachts for more than I bought them, but never more than I've spent on them

Euro trash will be no different but I wouldn't trade the experience with the family and friends of sailing back for any money.

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If nz is so crap, leave.

Personally, I'd rather live here than anywhere.

Did I say that? Im simply pointing out the state of economy, keep your shorts on. Im 9th generation European and Maori, Im not leaving any time soon, but I dont see why some should exploit the tax system and future generations have to pay for it. Imo the answer is simply to assett test Pension funds. Just like the guy with a broken back cant claim a disability certificate because his partner earns $1 over the threshold, neither should people with a $4m property and $1m in the bank be entitled to Pensions. Both are paid by yearly taxes and super pensions are not paid by your tax throughout your lifetime. This would keep things fair. And if its good enough to raise the age to 67 in 2037 why not just do it now? Simply political gender.

 

67 is too old too retire, most have a few years of life live, what a great country, work all your life to die.

 

If our government is just going to keep borrowing money to keep themselves in government at some stage the little that we do produce will not pay for the interest rate of our national debt, which will be catastrophic, properties will be worth zilch, there wont be pension incomes for anyone.

 

Id like to see one government in NZ think long term, invest in the basics of economy, education, health, small business, so we actually start buying our own goods again and start exporting them, but Id also like to see nz develop a 21st century economy not an 18th century agriculture economy. I think we need to have mentorships and grants in place like in Australia for small business, so our small businesses dont flop. 

 

And in time Id like to see all businesses be forced to contribute super like in Australia. At this point with our taxation system and where its being spent, its just not feasible.

 

So instead of stating simply leave, how about some ideas on how we make it fair for all? I presume you are not in retirement?

 

 

Twosail if your thinking 10 years out I wouldn't rush, there is a lot more correction yet to come in the NZ market, our last yacht has probably dropped a third since we sold in 2014 looking at current market and probably hasn't hit bottom yet

 

 

Thanks Jon, I agree, I think we will have a massive crash and plateau for 10 years and meet up with nations with stronger economies than ours whilst our real estate market is 2000% above per capita theirs.

 

We are going back to Aus to make the most of a better income, health and 10% super free, we will inject our money back into NZ once the kiwi dollar is back down to around 75c AU. So its kind of a 10 year work hard plan to retire young plan (without the reliance or greed of taking a pension when we dont need it). 

 

What boat did you end up buying?

 

Ive heard a lot about charter boats being very popular, recently especially greek yachts.

 

Id actually like a cat but the only cats ive owned are power boats.

 

What is the best passage back from europe? Clearly its a bit harder if the yacht is in norther Europe, but most of the cheaper boats seem to be ex charter yachts from the mediterranean......

 

Im trying to assess whether we really need a 40ft boat, we only plan to sail between the BOI and the inner and out hauraki gulf. At the same time clearly a trailer sailer wont work. Something fairly fresh that would do the job for about $70k.

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Good grief TwoSail, so many inaccuracies and so little time!, but at the risk of this turning into a political debate, let me correct you on just a few glaringly obvious inaccuracies while i munch on my lunch,

 

Both are paid by yearly taxes and super pensions are not paid by your tax throughout your lifetime. This would keep things fair.

 

This was corrected in 2001 with the Cullen Superfund, you should read up on it. Its an investment fund payed into with taxes today to pay for the pensions in the future

 

67 is too old too retire, most have a few years of life live, what a great country, work all your life to die.

 

If you don't want to retire at 67, then work a little harder, save a little harder and retire early - not rocket science. BTW, thanks to modern research and medical advancement  primarily done by babyboomers, our life expectancy is increasing by approx 3 year every decade and hence its prudent to spend a little more time paying taxes to ensure you're financially secure for your increasingly long retirement dont you think.

 

If our government is just going to keep borrowing money to keep themselves in government at some stage the little that we do produce will not pay for the interest rate of our national debt, which will be catastrophic, properties will be worth zilch, there wont be pension incomes for anyone.

 

I'm assuming this is some rhetoric you've heard somewhere rather than knowing the truth?

 

Id like to see one government in NZ think long term, invest in the basics of economy, education, health, small business, so we actually start buying our own goods again and start exporting them, but Id also like to see nz develop a 21st century economy not an 18th century agriculture economy. I think we need to have mentorships and grants in place like in Australia for small business, so our small businesses dont flop. 

 

Perhaps you missed the memo, but small businesses, particularly in the tech sector, are the fastest growing exporter in NZ

 

And in time Id like to see all businesses be forced to contribute super like in Australia.

 

They are, its called kiwisaver and its compulsory for businesses to pay into it if the employee wants it.

 

At this point with our taxation system and where its being spent, its just not feasible.

 

So instead of stating simply leave, how about some ideas on how we make it fair for all? I presume you are not in retirement?

 

Thanks Jon, I agree, I think we will have a massive crash and plateau for 10 years and meet up with nations with stronger economies than ours whilst our real estate market is 2000% above per capita theirs.

 

I think you're prone to exaggeration. There will be a minor correction just like every other property cycle.

 

We are going back to Aus to make the most of a better income, health and 10% super free, we will inject our money back into NZ once the kiwi dollar is back down to around 75c AU.

 

Better income - yup.

Better health - only if you pay for health insurance like most Aussies.

10% super for free - nope, its compulsory and part of your remuneration package ie you, the employee pay for it.

 

AU75c - don't hold your breath. That resources boom was pretty spectacular at a time of global turmoil.

 

So its kind of a 10 year work hard plan to retire young plan (without the reliance or greed of taking a pension when we dont need it). 

 

Good luck. You've redeemed yourself slightly here

 

What boat did you end up buying?

 

Ive heard a lot about charter boats being very popular, recently especially greek yachts.

 

Id actually like a cat but the only cats ive owned are power boats.

 

What is the best passage back from europe? Clearly its a bit harder if the yacht is in norther Europe, but most of the cheaper boats seem to be ex charter yachts from the mediterranean......

 

Im trying to assess whether we really need a 40ft boat, we only plan to sail between the BOI and the inner and out hauraki gulf. At the same time clearly a trailer sailer wont work. Something fairly fresh that would do the job for about $70k.

 

Anyway must go, sandwich is finished and I need to count my non baby boomer pile of cash. property portfolio whilst lounging on the boat.

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Taking the pension they grew up being told would be there for them when the time came you call greed yet you're obviously very happy to suck off the taxpayers tit yourself. What's more you are even moving to an entire different country to do it  :roll:

You make WAY too many assumptions and provide no suggestions. Im a dual citizen and Ive already paid more tax than the average earner will have by the time they retire.  How am I happy to suck off the taxpayers tit (as you crassly put it)? I plan to proactively fund my own retirement and will have paid tax higher than the average wage for an entire workers life in both countries?

 

Im not sitting back saying " but they promised me a pension as I wax my $300k mercedes sitting on my $3m house.

 

When did anybody ever promise pensions would not change? When were pensions ever promised, show me that in writing. Not only this but pensioners got a $100k leg up on me with not having to pay for university. 

 

If they dont scrap pensions by the time im due for pension in 15 years (probably raised to 85 by that time) I wont be in a situation where I have to lie and say "they promised me there would be a pension". How am I in the wrong by proactively saving my money here and abroad to pay for my retirement?

 

What is wrong is someone who has enough money to fund their retirement, claiming $300 a week pension, what on earth do they need it for? So instead of constantly changing the age which is unfair on each generation they should first start income testing pensions and then secondly start looking to start making super contributions by business compulsory.

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Good grief TwoSail, so many inaccuracies and so little time!, but at the risk of this turning into a political debate, let me correct you on just a few glaringly obvious inaccuracies while i munch on my lunch,

 

 

Anyway must go, sandwich is finished and I need to count my non baby boomer pile of cash. property portfolio whilst lounging on the boat.

Yeah but I think you got it wrong.

 

I was promised I would have a pension at 65. ;-p Clearly I am doing what you said.

 

No Kiwisaver is not mandate. In Australia you are paid minimum 9.5% by your employer WITHOUT sacrificing your own income. It is by far a better way for the government to fund super. The uptake of kiwsaver is a joke.

 

If you think there will be a minor correction, go ahead and think that, but thats not what Im reading in my property investment forums and I dont see how economically a small correction is even financially feasible. But tell me how an economy that makes milk, lamb and tourism 100% pure lies and progaganda be 2000% per capita in property over a country like Germany that is a world leader in engineering, science, medicine, finance and powers 75% of its country daily with renewable energy? Yes they are a huge country, but 2000%? And dont give me "oh its a housing crisis" or "oh its immigration" real estate propaganda. Just use common sense to justify this line in the graph down the page.

 

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/03/daily-chart-6?zid=300&ah=e7b9370e170850b88ef129fa625b13c4

 

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/326391/nz-outpacing-developed-world-in-house-prices-economist

 

"There's no question really that property in New Zealand is unaffordable or over-valued when you look at some of those measurements The economist uses, comparing house prices to rents and house prices to incomes, especially in Auckland, those ratios are completely off the chart when you look at the history of the past 20, 25 years."

 

Click on Ireland, thats what NZ should have looked like instead of borrowing 100s of Millions on which Greedy kiwis followed 5% of the bubble which were Asian investors like greedy little sheep. What we should have done is taken the GFC blow and slowly grown our economy and property back again.

 

Why do I think this, well with my $100k of non FREE university like the baby boomers I had to study in commerce. Of course this is just my opinion, but its not one I feel I am alone in.

 

Medicare is not voluntary health insurance, is mandatory money set aside by the government and cant be used by the government, its not like here where we get one big budget and decide how much health gets. Medicare is paid directly from tax and is set amount in a seperate organisation to the government, you are given a medicare health insurance card. As an example it took me 14 months to see a back specialist under public in Aucklands North Shore, it took me 2 weeks under medicare.

 

If you earn over $50k then its financially more beneficial to have private health insurance seperate to medicare but this is simply due to it lowering your tax rate.

 

Man this is getting way off my topic of getting a european charter yacht.

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The young boats stick out at me, the newer ones, as having a modern interior.

 

I also like the Farr boats but feel they maybe too racey for me.

 

Its amazing how little difference you get for an extra $100k, you still get 1980s boats like the $70k bracket. Of course some may, or may not have been refurbished.

 

Is there a company that can do an appraisal of such matters for me?

 

I really like the look of something like this. Wood decking, modern interior, Im just not sure 32ft would be big enough or if Beale boats are easy to sail.

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/auction-1231434558.htm

 

Im really looking for the easiest boat to Sail, based in the BOI but capable of Sailing down to the Hauraki gulf inner and outer Islands including GBI, The Mercs, down to Mayor and maybe White Island.

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Im just going to ignore the trolling, Ive given my answers, single sentence replies with no substance dont help anyone, Im not a negative person. So lets get this back on track and about getting a euro import vs a kiwi made boat as per my previous reply.

 

The young boats stick out at me, the newer ones, as having a modern interior.

 

I also like the Farr boats but feel they maybe too racey for a family of 2 and one small tacker.

 

Its amazing how little difference you get for an extra $100k, you still get 1980s boats like the $70k bracket. Of course some may, or may not have been refurbished. But just over $200k you can get a  new yacht.

 

Is there a company that can do an appraisal of such matters for me?

 

I really like the look of something like this. Wood decking, modern interior, Im just not sure 32ft would be big enough or if Beale boats are easy to sail.

 

http://www.trademe.c...-1231434558.htm

 

Im really looking for the easiest boat to Sail, based in the BOI but capable of Sailing down to the Hauraki gulf inner and outer Islands including GBI, The Mercs, down to Mayor and maybe White Island.

 

Is 32ft big enough for this, and what are some cruising models considered easy to sail 1.5 handed?

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