snail 1 Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Check BP on Jarvis Rd. I got a 4 kg filled there in Feb. we used to fill 9 kg bottles from 45 kg bottles all the time on Great Barrier (As suggested 45 kg bottle upside down, 9 kg bottle on scales - once pressure equalises, open venting value on 9 kg till weight obtained or liquid comes out) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LBD 186 Posted January 28, 2024 Share Posted January 28, 2024 This is now a 6 year old topic, does anyone know if there been any updates on composite cylinders in NZ since then? I need two new cylinders and was looking at aluminium but the 5kg Aluminium is 418mm high... 20mm too tall to fit in my locker... And I am uncomfortable with the brass valve fitted to an Aluminium bottle in the marine environmnet. The 5 kg Composite bottle is 384 high and will fit nicely. https://www.southernseasmarine.com.au/yacht-boat-non-rusting-lightweight-composite-gas-lpg-cylinder https://hexagonragasco.com/our-composite-lpg-cylinders-3/approvals-and-certifications The approval process and the marking requirements for such cylinders are slightly different. Hexagon Ragasco has, for example, UN/ISO approval in New Zealand. Both pi-marked and locally approved valves are available for these cylinders, depending on the market/country. Valve design must always be approved by Hexagon Ragasco. Several standards have been developed to establish filling inspection and retesting procedures and criteria, which are referenced in ADR/RID: EN 1439 – Procedures for checking LPG cylinders before, during and after filling EN 16728 – Transportable refillable LPG cylinders other than traditional welded and brazed steel cylinders – Periodic inspection ISO 24431 – Cylinders for compressed and liquefied gases (excluding acetylene) – Inspection at time of filling ISO 11623 – Periodic inspection and testing of composite gas cylinders 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winter 42 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 @LBD - Did you go for those fancy composite cylinders in the end? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LBD 186 Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 On 27/04/2025 at 8:32 PM, Winter said: @LBD - Did you go for those fancy composite cylinders in the end? No, gave up. They are pretty much approved worldwide, but for NZ. Where some unintelligent govt official cannot understand thread sealing other than antiquated tapered threads. Keeping NZ in the dim dark ages. The concern is tapered threads splitting the neck open if overtightened. Composite gas bottles use parallel threads with an o-ring, a concept too complex for NZ officialdom to comprehend. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dagwood 70 Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 8 hours ago, LBD said: No, gave up. They are pretty much approved worldwide, but for NZ. Where some unintelligent govt official cannot understand thread sealing other than antiquated tapered threads. Keeping NZ in the dim dark ages. The concern is tapered threads splitting the neck open if overtightened. Composite gas bottles use parallel threads with an o-ring, a concept too complex for NZ officialdom to comprehend. Pity that official can't see the successful and extensive history of scuba tanks which work at 3000 psi and are hydro tested to 5000 using a similar system...... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1paulg 22 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 14 hours ago, LBD said: No, gave up. They are pretty much approved worldwide, but for NZ. Where some unintelligent govt official cannot understand thread sealing other than antiquated tapered threads. Keeping NZ in the dim dark ages. The concern is tapered threads splitting the neck open if overtightened. Composite gas bottles use parallel threads with an o-ring, a concept too complex for NZ officialdom to comprehend. I think it is the manufacturers responsibility to get them registered in NZ? I had 2 fiberglass bottle that came in from Aussie and it was so good being able to see levels in the tanks and no corrosion on the bottle being left in a wet locker for longer periods - unfortunately the drama of trying to titrate from a steel bottle was too hard and stopped using them . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winter 42 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 30 minutes ago, 1paulg said: I think it is the manufacturers responsibility to get them registered in NZ? I had 2 fiberglass bottle that came in from Aussie and it was so good being able to see levels in the tanks and no corrosion on the bottle being left in a wet locker for longer periods - unfortunately the drama of trying to titrate from a steel bottle was too hard and stopped using them . Still got the fibreglass ones in good condition and want to clear them out? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LBD 186 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 1 hour ago, 1paulg said: I think it is the manufacturers responsibility to get them registered in NZ? I had 2 fiberglass bottle that came in from Aussie and it was so good being able to see levels in the tanks and no corrosion on the bottle being left in a wet locker for longer periods - unfortunately the drama of trying to titrate from a steel bottle was too hard and stopped using them . Is actually really easy to transfer even without inverting or venting, have a short hose HP hose between bottles... leave both bottles upright, open valves and then place the one you want to fill in the fridge or freezer. Watch the level closely, it will fill totally and leave no vapour space, close the valves to stop the transfer before this happens. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1paulg 22 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 2 hours ago, Winter said: Still got the fibreglass ones in good condition and want to clear them out? No gave them away - to an Aussie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CarpeDiem 530 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 According to the legislation the cylinders have to meet the ISO 11119-3:2013 Health and Safety at Work (Hazardous Substances – Specification of Design Standards for Refillable Cylinders) Amendment Safe Work Instrument 2019 According to Ragasco they meet ISO 11119-3:2013 and 2020 https://ddmw27yrbyl8j.cloudfront.net/ISO-11119-3_Hexagon-Ragasco-24L_2022.pdf Not really clear where the breakdown is... maybe it's worth asking Worksafe what the issue is? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LBD 186 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 It was a phone conversation with work safe last year that told me the problem was a requirement for a tapered thread valve and the possibility that a tapered thread in a fibreglass bottle would split the neck open. At the time they would not consider a parallel thread and o-ring... I suspect the guy was also worried at the possibility someone might try and use an incorrect thread. But would love to be proven wrong, or opinions to be changed, I would still like to buy a couple of bottles if I could get them refilled. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Frank 175 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 20 hours ago, LBD said: It was a phone conversation with work safe last year that told me the problem was a requirement for a tapered thread valve and the possibility that a tapered thread in a fibreglass bottle would split the neck open. At the time they would not consider a parallel thread and o-ring... I suspect the guy was also worried at the possibility someone might try and use an incorrect thread. But would love to be proven wrong, or opinions to be changed, I would still like to buy a couple of bottles if I could get them refilled. If they are still within their hydro life then maybe a filling station would oblige ? a bottle is a bottle if its ISO compliant and its test is current. Seems a fair chunk of the planet is OK with composite bottles so why do we invent a hypothetical risk that is managed/tolerated elsewhere under the same ISO standard ? where is the data/evidence to support their position ? its nuts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1paulg 22 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 13 minutes ago, Frank said: If they are still within their hydro life then maybe a filling station would oblige ? a bottle is a bottle if its ISO compliant and its test is current. Seems a fair chunk of the planet is OK with composite bottles so why do we invent a hypothetical risk that is managed/tolerated elsewhere under the same ISO standard ? where is the data/evidence to support their position ? its nuts. No one local would fill mine as they need to be NZ registered and certified - seems odd if they are available as close as Aussie and no manufacturer has bother to register them here as corrision on steel ones in a marine environment is an issue 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Frank 175 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 1 hour ago, 1paulg said: No one local would fill mine as they need to be NZ registered and certified - seems odd if they are available as close as Aussie and no manufacturer has bother to register them here as corrision on steel ones in a marine environment is an issue The bottle on our boat is aluminium with a brass neck fitting sold to me as a refurbished unit by Tank Test Laboratories in Puhinui Rd, I have painted it and keep the neck treated with Lanocote but as already commented you would think it would be of equal concern since I have seen dissimilar metal corrosion cause cracks in thick aluminium, particularly cast material. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LBD 186 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 1 hour ago, Frank said: The bottle on our boat is aluminium with a brass neck fitting sold to me as a refurbished unit by Tank Test Laboratories in Puhinui Rd, I have painted it and keep the neck treated with Lanocote but as already commented you would think it would be of equal concern since I have seen dissimilar metal corrosion cause cracks in thick aluminium, particularly cast material. Galvanic corrosion is why I did not go down the aluminium bottle path for the main supply. I have now bought a small aluminium one for the BBQ just to watch it a while... Also used lanocote. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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