MrWolf 0 Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 If that band idea (i.e. allowed to sail in 8.5 nationals with sails set at max air draft) had been adopted I know of three guys who would have built 8.5's by now. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 "I know of three guys who would have built 8.5's by now." That's crap the only reason for building an 8.5 is to be in the class and race against other boats under the same rule. Lets face it the hulls are the cheap bit if you really are that worried about the rig height and want to race with the open boats half the time just build a 35 footer. and stop bitching about the rig in the 8.5 Link to post Share on other sites
ScottiE 174 Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 wolfie - what did they build instead? Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 343 Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 I know Rodney Keenan was keen, he posted here saying as much, bu went off the idea. Rumour on the street is that he is talking about a fleet of one design 8.5m cats that wouldn't fit the rule? Link to post Share on other sites
Clive 13 Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 Can we learn from history? What have other classes done? They have also had similar problems I'm sure, anyone know what the outcome was? 12's, Int 14's, 18ft Skiffs. F18's they all have very different rules. Which is the most successful and why? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 This meeting looks like it will be fun, who's going to give us a report afterwards? Link to post Share on other sites
Clive 13 Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 This meeting looks like it will be fun, who's going to give us a report afterwards? Good point ... MF has the chair, who is the scribe? Will we need a bouncer?! Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 343 Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 Will we need a bouncer?! Nah, mikey aint that big, should be easy to deal with him if he gets stroppy. Link to post Share on other sites
samin 0 Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 I know Rodney Keenan was keen, he posted here saying as much, bu went off the idea. Rumour on the street is that he is talking about a fleet of one design 8.5m cats that wouldn't fit the rule? sounds like a tui add to me... Link to post Share on other sites
samin 0 Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 Racing an 8.5 with 5? What a snoozefest. And its hard enough to rustle up a crew of 3!No wonder the aussies want bigger rigs. Samin, what is the objection to bands? Seems a bit over the top. If there was an 8.5 that had a 14m rig on it, that wanted to reef and sail as an 8.5, is that really so bad? What is the down side? yep well I guess thats why we will vote on it. Why dont you propose that mast bands be ok? then we can vote on that too, I just think no one will ever reef there sails except for the nats so split the fleet in half for your average wed night race and winter series Link to post Share on other sites
samin 0 Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 This meeting looks like it will be fun, who's going to give us a report afterwards? y dont you come along Dave? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 I just think no one will ever reef there sails except for the nats so split the fleet in half for your average wed night race and winter series interesting..... I agree......... but thats because the current rigs are a bit short.... and people would actually prefer racing with slightly taller rigs, allowing more effecient easier to handle sail plans...... good buy overlappers, and hello solid wing masts! ...... ( facebook not flinstones ) going to be an interesting meeting.... pity I dont get a vote any wednesday night fleet split would surely be done on handicap not "class" the 8.5s are all so different in speed there is no point in giving them there own start.... but thats another discussion ! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 i guess if you increase the airdraft the box will just get filled to it's max again and there will be the same issues with large loaded roaches and inefficiency -the only way around that is to limit upwind sail area as well as air draft and then you will be getting boats that will be tending toward being closer in performance=better racing bands wont work. no multihull sailor will ever sail to the band when they can go faster most of the time with a bigger sail and who can afford to keep two sail wardrobes attached is what Whio would look like if it had a rig height as proposed by the ozzies: max that could fit into a container + distance to mast step from water = 13.2m. sail area with same top batten is about 2.5 m2 more than currently including fore triangle and is about 51.5m2 (but maybe you'd keep same sail area and reduce the top batten a bit) . dont have the tools for any quantative analysis in terms of speed difference upwind/efficiency/whether we would have tipped over saturday fortnight ago.... GBE 12600 airdraft.pdf GBE 13200 airdraft.pdf Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 It still seems to me the only ones that want to increase the size of the 8.5s masts are people who are not in the class. Not yet have I heard of a disgruntled 8.5er (maybe attitude, and so they're doing the wise thing) Link to post Share on other sites
GregW 28 Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 i guess if you increase the airdraft the box will just get filled to it's max again and there will be the same issues with large loaded roaches and inefficiency -the only way around that is to limit upwind sail area as well as air draft and then you will be getting boats that will be tending toward being closer in performance=better racing bands wont work. no multihull sailor will ever sail to the band when they can go faster most of the time with a bigger sail and who can afford to keep two sail wardrobes attached is what Whio would look like if it had a rig height as proposed by the ozzies: max that could fit into a container + distance to mast step from water = 13.2m. sail area with same top batten is about 2.5 m2 more than currently including fore triangle and is about 51.5m2 (but maybe you'd keep same sail area and reduce the top batten a bit) . dont have the tools for any quantative analysis in terms of speed difference upwind/efficiency/whether we would have tipped over saturday fortnight ago.... Yeh but a lot of the aussies want a 14m+ airdraft which wastes the container argument. I'm of the opinion that each country should do what suits those prepared to put the money where the mouth is. Tim the pdfs are great but they are at differnt scales. Could you drop one over the other at the same scale? PS. Given that the full available S/A 'box' is likely to be filled with an AD limit maybe some sort of sliding scale between mast height and boom length could compensate for variations in mast height? Otherwise you have to start measuring sails etc. Booooring! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 This meeting looks like it will be fun, who's going to give us a report afterwards? y dont you come along Dave? Is it open?thought it was members/owners only? Do I have to bring rum? Link to post Share on other sites
GregW 28 Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 Do I have to bring rum? Of course. You should bring lots. Although, I'm not sure whether it should be cracked before or after the mast height discussion. Discussion... could easily get ..diverted...etc. Link to post Share on other sites
dirtydeeds 0 Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 Yes I have to agree this is turning into a bit of a bunfight. As far as I know most 8.5 owners are happy with the rig height, and while I myself have thought that it could be increased albeit with a limit on sail area, the class is well established now and changing it for a couple of "prospective" owners is just a pile of sh*t because how many of the 10 or so 8.5 owners who actually make up the regular racing fleet are going to fork out 30k for a new rig and sail wardrobe to suit? I know we wont and why would we as that is why we joined the class, to have competitive racing amongst similar craft. I admit it is frustrating having such close racing with the 'open' boats downwind only to get slayed upwind, but if more 8.5 owners were to come out racing then we could have our own division and there would be no problem. If the class is too "slow" for you don't harass us to increase the rig height, build a boat 1/2 a metre longer and race in the open fleet for f**ks sake! they practically have a class already with TWU, Timberdog and Frantic. I would see this as the ideal step up with the 8.5 being a good introductory class for people interested in getting into multi sailing and an open 9 or 10m class as a natural progression from that. This is where we would look at going as a next step from the Dirty Deeds. The 8.5s have been and still are a very competitive and popular class because for most people they are a manageable and easy to sail boat that you can take the odd novice or your family for a sail without too much drama, they are easy to find crew for, you have a barrel of fun, and dollar per knot the fastest ride up the coast you'll ever find. why would you want to change that? Bob Fisher Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 Nicely said Bob. Paul Link to post Share on other sites
Adrianp 120 Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 As a someone planning an 8.5 as their next boat (but probably not for the next 5 years due to having sprogs) can I ask what peoples opinions are around how the air draft rule effects tris over cats? I keep looking at the Farrier Tris thinking they tick all the boxs for my requirements but I've heard people say Tris get dis-advantaged under the rule due to having a higher mast step and therefore missing out on sail area. PS - I'd like to state I'm not having a go at the mast height! PPS - My one sail on Borderline does make me wonder about my Farrier choice! Thats one cool boat Booger! And it has a double bed! PPPS - You lot will be pleased to know everytime I tweak my sportie to go faster, I think "This is dumb, it just needs extra hulls!" Link to post Share on other sites
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