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Farr 6000: seeking advice for sea legs and other upgrades/improvements


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Hi,

Leaving in Marlborough and after having extensive chats on Crew.org last year I have finally bought my first trailer yacht, a Farr 6000. So pleased with it. Thank you for all the precious advices.

Now, I am planning to make some improvements, list as follow:

 

- looking to make some sea legs to go to Abel Tasman and beach it. I cannot find any helpful design to show how to make some. Has anyone got photos of good exemples or advices to offer?

 

- I am after an auxiliary outboard just in case my main outboard fails. Do I adsolutely need a long shaft one? I am after a second hand 3hp but hard to find in long shaft...

 

- I am planning to take out some hardwares to sand and re-varnish (rails, companion way). What is the best sealant to refit hardware?

 

- Rudder: when I take it out to put it in cabin for storage, when I tip it up-side down, water come out from the inside. I understand the rudder is made of 2 half place glued together... should I worry of water infiltrating inside these 2 halves of the rudder?

 

- Electrical system is OK but not really tidy. I have tried to charge my phone the other day but the charge keeps on coming on and off (not continuous charge). Would any one have a good, simple design, layout to rework wiring and control panel with tips on on material (wire, ....) to use and tidiest way to fit wiring?

 

- We are planning to planning to go for a cruise in Abel Tasman for 3 of 4 nights: any tips on what to absolutely have or equip for a few days cruise?

 

thanks in advance for your help.

Damien

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Lots of questions there, I'm not an expert on but my 2 cents worth:

1) water coming out of a rudder is generally a bad thing. Water shouldn't be in the rudder, so it means there is some sort of structural failing like a crack, or worse, a split, etc. Worst case is the rudder breaks while you are out sailing. Not only does this wreck your day, it makes it very difficult to steer the boat and get back to safety. I'd look further into that. It could be fine, but the extent of the risk is unknown.

 

2) Spare outboard, do you have any major concerns with your main outboard? I'm not a TY sailor, but I wouldn't have thought a spare outboard was necessary. Certainly take an outboard for your dinghy, and think how to use that on the main boat. If I had engine issue the first two options I would go to are firstly the anchor (to give time to investigate) and secondly the sails. An alternative school of thought, depending on how big your boat is, is to take ours and row it. Stowing these is likely to be a major pain however, but people do row moderately large yachts (back in the day, before reliable engines came about)

 

3) Charging the phone, there is a wide range of possible causes of this issue before needing to replace the whole system. Some 12 volt phone chargers aren't that good, or do random things like charge extremely slowly or need a certain current or voltage input. What sort of system do you have, house battery and solar panel? house battery and outboard charging? If you do have a house battery, what is the age and condition of it? If its a flooded lead acid battery, have you checked and topped up the water in it?

4) on the legs, I'm not a TY sailor, but you have to catch the high tide to dry out with legs. You could anchor off and tie the stern too the land, so as to be in close to the beach but not dry out. If set up right you can wind the boat in and out as the tides goes up and down, so the back of the boat is in wading water. Would save making up and carrying legs.

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google: beach legs, then yacht legs (sea legs is the term in NZ for the boat with wheels)

 

take two forms of waterproof communication. have your grab bag ready, lodge a trip report with friends and then each day with coastguard

 

Isn't the farr 6000 pretty flat on the bottom? Do you need beach legs?

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charging your phone on a small boat is always much more difficult than at home

 

the problem being the way salty air corrodes the tiny connections in a modern electrical beast and the way small boats smash around with an open at just above sea level

 

phone elec connections were never designed for a "challenging environment"

 

so try and keep your phone inside the boat as much as possible, ideally well fwd of the hatch, to protect the tiny slide power connections from the corrosive atmosphere of splashed seawater

 

half the time the problem can be fixed by changing the cheap 50% of the connection, the cable....if that doesn't work then the issue is the phone's connections,  and that can mean a new phone....

 

if you're serious about taking your phone sailing in a small boat thing of getting an expensive freshwater splashproof phone, and giving it a warm dunk and shake, in a sink, after each sailing session

 

beaching legs - every boat seems to require a slightly different design based on its weight, the strength of the hull and gunnels, the sand or mud it is expected to work in and the diy ability of the owner

 

lots of ideas here

 

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=beaching+legs&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiv9NOwu_7XAhXFgrwKHczIBE0Q_AUICigB&biw=1242&bih=579

 

but as mentioned above

 

trailer sailers usually are so flat across the bottom they seem to do without...

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thanks all for your inputs.

 

Rudder worries me now... not sure what it involves to repair that (water infiltrating inside). Would it be a good idea to secure the 2 halves parts with stainless screws and nuts to hold it together for the rest of the summer season?? Is it best to bring it to a boat repairer? Shall I send you photos?

 

Outboard auxiliary: I have a 6hp Mercury 4 stroke from 2005. Mechanically as new (said by repairer) and I have just got the electrical box replaced as it was faulty... since then it does not miss a beat. But with a family of 2 young kids, I still wonder if it would not be a great idea to have a wee auxiliary just in case? For the ours, why not but never used some on a bigger boat so would not know how to fit them... and this seems exhausting lwith family worried on board...

I thought 3hp  as an emergency solution would still help us get home... slowly??

 

Electrical system/phone charging: phone is definitely in good condition no doubt here. My yacht electrical system is house battery brand new deep cycle (45 or 60 Amp can't remember), all connections are looking good on boat. I have 4 plugs, they all do the same... May have to check the charger itself...

BTW, I have a 20W solar panel, my battery currently reads 12.6V. I have told it is charged at 13.7V. How long would it take the solar panel (under nice sunshine) to bring it up to full charge?

 

Sea/beaching legs: Farr 6000 do not have a flat bottom so legs would be required. thanks for the links as I could not find them. I am still hoping I can find a simple design for this yacht type. I am hoping not to drill/modify boat to fit them if possible...

 

I have been told that Farr trailer yacht association does not run anymore. I have sent an email months ago to become member but never had a reply and payment was not working... it is very unfortunate as I was hoping to find a ton of information on it...

 

 

Thanks all for keeping the topic going.

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Re the battery and charging, mid 12s is normal for a good battery at rest. You'll only get up to 13.7 when it's on charge - either the solar panel is in bright sunlight or the engine is running if you have charging from the engine. So 12.6 is probably fine.

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Hey Damien,

 

Think I reacall messaging you last summer, congrats on buting a boat.

 

My thoughts:

 

You definitely want beach legs for your boat for Able Tasman. Yes the bottom of a farr6 is ‘quite’ flat, but they have a small keel under them, sleeping on a lean all night won’t be fun.

For those who havent been, the Able Tasman has many estuary’s that dry out totally below high tide, you spen more time on the bottom that afloat, and would have to park outside the estuaries, exposed to the weather, to stay afloat, hundreds of meters from where you want to be. The estuaries get to maybe 1m deep at high tide, with 2.5m+ tides.

 

I’d be making sure the primary engine is as reliable as you can make it. If it craps out on a nice day, sail or anchor. If it craps out on a bad day, you won’t want to be, or have time to be dicking around trying to fit a 3hp, to find it won’t push you where you need to go anyway. Make sure you can sail it competently in all weather would be time better spent. Making sure all systems work properly and easily, and you understand them will help as much or more when the sh*t hits the fan than a spare motor.

 

Try the USB charger in your car, some are crap and turn on and off all the time on their own. Next step, make sure your battery is charged.

 

Take a good solar panel. It does not have to be mounted on the boat. Put it away when your going somewhere and sit it out when you get there.

 

I know many people who take / have taken F6’s to AT, I’ll ask for pics / designs of their sea legs.

 

Simsons 5200 is good sealant and won’t go off in the tube as fast as sikaflex does.

 

Water in the rudder isn’t good, as above. That wants looking into before you go very far. A yacht with no rudder is no fun.

 

I’m a marine sparky, rewired a f6 not that long ago. I can help with some pointers on what to do, but won’t really have time until January. The original lighting wiring is normally glassed into the cabin top, so replacing it becomes comparatively ugly.

 

Take insect repellent. Lots and lots of insect repellent. And a boom tent, keep the sun and rain off, provides a second room, almost. When it rains there, it can really rain.

 

Go for more than 4 days :)

 

Have fun

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Go and see Ian at Vining Marine in Waikawa some time, he will draw you what you need for beach legs.

 

Also, take a square or rectangular bucket. Leave it at the back of the boat with 100mm of water in it. When your boats on the sand, stand in it as you get on each time to keep the sand out of your boat.

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Thanks heaps Matt.

You are right we have had a good discussion last year which led to the purchase of the F6! I am loving it though I am still learning everything. I am trying to crew as much as I can on Tuesday night twilight series which gives me good practical training.

 

If I am not wrong Ian is your dad, right?

I did see him again the other day and thanked him for his kind help.

 

For the rudder, I am worried now and so I need to act quickly if I want to use the boat over Christmas/NY... Do you have good suggestions? Could I fix it myself? Is the idea of fitting screw and nut across the blade to keep both parts together good? Or shall I bring it to a boat repairer? If yes, would you know of a good one and who could get things done prior to Xmas????!!!!

 

For the electrical and checking the overall condition of the boat, I would really be keen to show it to you to make sure all is sound and make a list of repair/upgrades.

 

thank you Matt.

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Reinforcing what mattm says, know how to operate and fix your existing gear, and sail competently is very handy, noting you are sailing with young kids I see now why you are talking about things like a spare motor. I'd focus on the basics to keep the stress down, anchoring, getting on and off the trailer, loading / packing the boat (no joke, I've got young kids, nothing like loosing the wet wipes or forgetting the nappies...)

 

On the rudder, this is tricky. In short, no you can't repair it with screws. The two options I think would be A) take it to someone knowledgeable, or B.) come up with a sound plan B. It may be fine, it may not, you'll only find out when the boat suddenly rounds up and wont go where you point it...

 

The issue with taking it to someone knowledgeable (i.e. a boat builder) is how close it is to Christmas, and you just can't tell what is wrong with it without pulling it apart. If it's leaking, it could be a minor leak, or it could be like weetbix inside held together by the paint.

Plan B's I would look at would be to look at using the motor to steer the boat, tinnie style, if your rudder does break, to get you home. This might be the easiest option, depending on how your outboard is mounted.

Alternatively, acquire or borrow another rudder. If your current rudder drops into a cassette this could be easy, if it hangs on pintals it could be a hassle.

The other thing to is to see if you can break it at home. Bend it over something to see if there is lots of movement, or cracks open up.

 

We've had problems with a wooden rudder on a yacht, I don' know much about glass rudders, but I'm sure someone who does will be along shortly. Our rudder had a stainless stock with stainless splines (bars) going into the timber part of the rudder. Water was getting down the stock. This can lead to crevice corrosion of the stainless. Stainless will corrode if there is no air around, so if you have stainless gudgeon's going into wood (the rudder hinge part) I'd be wary of this. Additionally, the wood can just rot, or otherwise go mushy. We cut into ours, stripped everything back, inspected the stainless, got a new stock in the end, and re-built the rudder with new wood and fibreglass. isn't a quick job in the context of finishing it before Christmas.

 

Some photos on here would help with the context of what you are talking about. It is hard with 'internet diagnosis' with little understanding of the issue.

 

On the batteries, we have a 20 W panel. How much you can get out of it depends on the type, age and condition of the panel, and the type of controller. Assuming it is a rigid panel, it should produce about 2 amps max, but this will be in ideal conditions. I budget on 1 amp in typical conditions. How long to charge, is then literally 1 hr per amp (1 amp/hr). If you have a 60 amp hr battery you can safely take it down to 50% capacity, i.e. use 30 amp hours. therefore it will take 30 hours of typical sunshine to re-charge that consumption.

I would recommend fully charging the battery on mains power before you start your trip. You wont be able to run a lot of electric stuff on the set up, not lots of lights and stereo or anything like a fridge or water pumps. I would have thought lights and instruments by themselves would be fine though.

 

And yes, thoroughly recommend a boom tent if you are going with kids, extra room, especially if it is raining. How old are the kids? don't let them get board, take lots of what they are into, toys, games, portable device for videos (sounds like blasphemy, but if you need to keep them occupied, you need to keep them occupied).

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I forgot to add, on a boat that hasn't been used for a while, or a boat new to you, its like a law of physics that something will break or not work properly. Sounds like you may have already dealt with that by getting the electricals on the outboard replaced. if you break a few things before your big trip that is a good thing, its just what happens on boats.

 

And if you want to use the outboard to steer option, so you don't have to worry about the rudder thing, try that out before your trip, it will give you confidence in the plan. It should work given the outboard is right at the back of the boat, assuming how it is mounted lets it turn. You might just need a bit of pipe as a tiller extension or something.

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Thank you Fish.

 

Here are a few photos I have just taken tonight. Actually I thought I drained all the water but I can still hear slushing in the rudder...

Below are photos showing when  tip the rubber back, you can see water drain at the fron of rubber. it is only coming out in one point, not sure how long is the opening/split though as water runs along the edge:

 

20171210_211307.jpg

20171210_211816.jpg

I am unsure what the Farr 6000 rudders are made of though...

 

 

Electrical panel... old school:

20171210_212059.jpg

20171210_212247.jpg

 

Solar panel regulator:

20171210_212258.jpg

 

Battery:

20171210_212312.jpg

 

Solar panel:

20171210_212411.jpg

20171210_212433.jpg

 

 

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All I can tell from the photos of your rudder is that you have a problem. I'm not familiar with this type of rudder (only dealt with a wooden one with stainless stock) so I can't add anything that I haven't already said.

 

Personally, I wouldn't take my kids to sea with that rudder. Its not an insignificant amount of water coming out, indicating a not insignificant structural issue letting it in (i.e. crack). If I were heading out with mates yes maybe, but not with the kids, especially on the 'first big trip'. It may be fine, but I have no knowledge of these rudders.

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On the solar panel, its operating current is 1.05 Amps. I generally halve the operating current to get a typical or average current for calculating how long it would take to charge the batteries. The stated operating current is under ideal conditions, new panel, clean face, sun perfectly overhead, no shading, no cloud etc.

 

This means you are likely to get 0.5 Amps typical. That is not much. If you have a 60 amp/hr battery and take it to 50% capacity, it will take 60 hrs of sunlight to re-charge it. (30 amp hrs at 0.5 amps per hour).

 

This panel actually looks like it is for 'float charging'. Flooded lead acid batteries (FLA's) loose a small % charge every week / month. They last longest when they are kept fully charged. If left flat they get buggered quickly. A lot of people put a small 20W panel and a simple charge controller on just to keep the battery topped up, i.e. not going flat from just sitting there. This set up is going to have limit capacity to actually charge the battery. i.e. if you are using stuff during the day and lights / stereo over night, I doubt this panel will put very much meaningful power back into the battery.

 

How much power do you plan on using? cabin lights and phone charging? or will you use torches and camping lanterns and just use the house battery for phone charging etc? The question of how adequate the solar panel is is entirely dependent on how much power you plan to use. I would definitely give the battery a full charge on a mains power charger before your trip, and check the water is topped up. (don't use tap water to top it up, get some proper battery water from Repco or SCA type places). Its good practice to get a bottle of battery water and keep it buy the battery. Check the battery once a month and give it a top up straight away if it needs it.

 

The wiring looks fine and tidy to me. Much tidier than what is on my boat... Its most likely your phone charging issues are to do with a poor quality charger.

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Thank you Fish.

 

For the rudder... decision taken, I am bringing it to Norski tomorrow to get it repaired, they can do it this week, perfect.

I appreciate your safety advises as it is most important after all.

 

For the electrical system, it is not new but generally tidy at least for the panel... I will check phone charger and get Matt to look at over all system in January.

 

For the solar panel, I know understand now it is not a great panel...!

 

Thanks again!

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Good to hear you can get your rudder fixed before Christmas. Hopefully it is not a major. I was worried I was the fun police on that issue. The principal I'm taking on getting the kids into sailing is being careful not to avoid a bad experience. It's hard to get them back on board once you've scared the crap out of them (same applies to the missus in a lot of cases too).

Someone took the family to Great Barrier Island last NY's, got three days of terrible rain and couldn't get out of the cabin. Complained he wouldn't get the family back on the boat. That rain was fairly well forecast. It pays to be flexible with your plans and adapt them if necessary.

 

It would be straight forward to upgrade the solar panel if you wanted to. There is a wide range of panels at differing quality and price. It just depends what the capacity of your controller is (in amps). You should be able to basically plug in a bigger panel, provided it is within the spec of the controller. Be aware though that going down that path (upgrading stuff) is like going down a rabbit hole...

 

I'd just use the boat for a bit and enjoy it. If something becomes a problem then you can address it. Simple is always good. A camping lantern or do will cover you for a four day trip.

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Now, while my little 4 stroke 6hp Mercury outboard is running sweet, I am still planning to give it a service... myself.

Is it good idea or wise to bring it to Mercury agent?

It seems fairly straight forward at least for the engine and gear box oil and I guess grease all required points as indicated on manual.

Would there be anything else to check like greasing propeller axle or cleaning up/greasing other parts?

I was also planning to get a spare spark plug just in case. is it worth it?

Cheers,

Damien

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Just use your common sence with everything , or the what should I do if , , ,, it’s camping on water , take food water for the time afloat. , take spares , battery’s it goes on common sence with everything , remember you can’t duck off to the shop your on water , take what you need

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