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enlarging Cavalier 32 sail plan


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Hi there,

 

new to this forum and very eager to get into it. I own a cavalier 32 and although I love it, like everyone who loves their boat, I am trying to make it better.

 

She is a little sluggish in the light winds right?

 

My genoa N1 does not have much more life in it so, a part from changing that one ($3500 which I don't want to buy right now) I was thinking to extend the boom and put a bigger main sail. Being of a much smaller area It should not cost as much right?

 

Now, the real question. Would it make it reasonably better or is it a pointless exercise? 

 

I would appreciate any comment in regards.

 

Cheers! 

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Sorry PR, mains are more complex than headsails, and usually cost more. Best for light wind performance is to keep the hull spotlessly clean and smooth. Even slime will cost you much more speed than you think, especially to windward. I clean my boat every month, although sometimes im a bit slack in winter!

Good sails help very much as well, but we all understand budgets!

As the sails get older, the draft moves aft - use more cunningham to help move them back forward. Remember, if you dont have a cunning ham, you have a stupid pig!

Rig tensions are also very important (and free!!), as is mast rake, prebend etc.

Ask if you need help with any of it, and welcome aboard Crew.org!

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Welcome aboard PR.  

 

If I was you i'd pay for a couple of hours labour from a good rigger or sail maker and get them to work with you on how to setup the rig you have.  A new headsail will likely make a lot of difference also.  It's amazing what another set of eyes looking over your boat does for sail trim and speed.  

 

Agree on the hull cleanliness issue - makes a huge difference up to 1.5 knot on my yacht. 

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Welcome Prince Rupert,

So the Cav 32 is a mast head rig with a massive headsail and a small main. Your objective is to improve performance in the light?

From a financial point of view, I would think extending the boom (which effectively requires a new boom) and getting a new, bigger main - this is likely to cost easily twice as much as a new headsail. As IT says, mains are a substantially more complex sail than a headsail.

 

Not a lot of modern boats have the big headsails and small mains. We've got a Birdsall 37, and while the ratio's aren't as extreme as the Cav 32, she enjoys a big #1 and modest main. This type of boat are driven by the headsail. The main is more like a trim tab, it can be used to control the slot (between the sails) which dictates a lot of the performance, and the main can be used for adjusting balance and trim of the boat.

 

In short, if you want to improve performance, spend the money on a new headsail.

You've commented it doesn't have much life in it. Being new to the board  I don't have a handle on how much experience you've got, but there is a massive difference between physical life and shape life. If it is a dacron sail, the physical life will be good, but the shape will be like trying to fly a sack of potatoes. The difference between an existing sail with poor shape and a new sail will be like night and day, you wont recognise the performance of your own boat. We did this on our boat a few season after buying it. The sails were old but "structurally fine". We had no power, but when the wind came up a little bit we would just heal over, so we'd reef, so we had less power, so we'd just get pissed off. We put on a new main, which, until you've felt the difference in performance looks like a cost you can't justify, but man, all of a sudden the boat would accelerate forward and not heal over. We could carry the full main 5 or 8 knots further up the wind range before reefing, the boat would be balanced, and much, much faster.

 

Also, Southernman's comment on getting some advice on rig tuning and sail performance. Correct rig set up will make a good difference to performance. But also understanding all the rig and trim settings for different wind conditions, windy with flat water, windy with lumpy water, light with flat water, light with lumpy water, they all reuire different sail shapes, and understanding and getting those right will make a massive difference to performance.

 

Oh, and putting on a longer boom may shift the balance of the boat and screw up the trim and balance. It is likely to shift the centre of effort back, which may lead to the boat trying to round up. I understand Cav 32's are renowned for their balance and light helm, wouldn't want to risk messing that up.

 

Black Panther who lurks around here used to do some sailing on a Cav 32, around the Pacific NW, or the world or something, I get mixed up. He may be along soon to comment. I think his Cav had the taller mast to keep it going in the light. 

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Yeah a Cav 32 isn't going to be exciting or quick in light winds. Our family had Sunbird and raced against PR.

A good Genoa, especially if full hoist, not a reduced furler.

Clean bottom.

Spinnaker or Gennaker are great for reaching and downhill if you can....

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I put a longer boom on our Cav36 when we had it. Turned out to be quite effective.

Make sure you ease the backstay off in the light, powers up the main and headsail.

If the sails are old new ones will make a big difference upwind but easy to spend a lot of money.

Or you could just enjoy your boat and appreciate it for what it is,

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All of the above fish. Yes I added 1m to the mast. With 1 reef and no2 headsail I had the standard rig. I was as fast as the

Farr 33 moonshine downwind and passed her upwind on our first outing.

The boat was powered up In 12-14kn where the standard rig about 18kn.

Interestingly the boat was originally designed with the rig I had. It was cut down to make it rate 1/2 ton.

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An in-between option if you want a larger main, but don't want the expense of a new boom, is getting a new main sail with plenty of roach. We did this by getting a normal pin-head main, getting it fully battened, and pushing the roach out as far as it would fit under the back stay. Adds a bit of extra area, especially if your current main only has short battens at the leach, and has a flat leech from the head to the clew.

 

This is all of course going down the path of spending $$$ whatever you do. There is a bit to be said in enjoying the boat as is for a while and learning the finer points of trim with the current set up.

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Owoned the Cav 32 Goldilocks for a number of years. Had a main with a roach that clipped the backstay instead of the straight leach on the standard mains I think this helped. We took line in  every race in the 2001 transtasman series when we helmed for NZ. The biggest secret to get a Cav going in light airs is to ease the main well down the traveller. No matter what the wind strenght, always have the main just starting to backwind. I know it may sound wrong when the main is so small but just try it. We weren't too far off the pace uphill against the Stewart 34's in that series and the only fresh beat we had was about 18 to 20 knots and the only S34 that beat us to the top mark was Roy Dicksons boat with Roy on the helm. Coming from the PYBC, we didn't know the upper harbour like all the S34 guys.

I don't agree with fish regarding Cav 32 being light on the helm. Reaching in fresh to strong breezes can lead to your arm lenghts be stretched considerably. In saying that, we really enjoyed the Cav for all the years we had her.

Just accept that it will never be a light airs flyer.

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With there keel config and mast head rig is a hard one , maby the first thing to do is up the boom length and cut down the jibs to just over lap the mast a foot or two , the main is the thing to work on with these boats Generating power , it’s a head sail power boat , main stable , , a fully battened , tension batton , roach main would help with a wide headboard , my boat was same large over lap headsails, on a fractional rig , I started with a new main and generated speed and all the jibs just lap the mast , totally different boat very quick in a blow and in 5 kts just heal it and off it goes ,I can do 7s in 18 knots hard on But down wind is a sacrifice depending how well you set the gear, but the big main comes into play , the cav has a full body so maby hard to crank up

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Cav 32 is a good little offshore and heavy weather boat. As others have said clean bum and good sails will make a big difference. As BP said the sail area is a bit small due to half ton rating but they are a magic boat upwind in a strong breeze with that 50% ballast ratio. If it were me Iooking for more speed in the light i would be considering a more powerful donk and a 3 bladed feathering prop or if you really would like light air performance maybe changing to a different boat may be the best option.

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Hi guys,

 

thank you for all the great input you all gave me! appreciate it very much.

 

Now, to summarize my take on it; I am very grateful for the boat I have and I am inclined on to doing with what I have got for the longest time possible. I will get to know the boat and all she has to offer.

The plan is to crunch miles though so before or later I will have to invest, I think, into a new genoa N 1. It also appears to be the cheapest and safest option in terms of performance outcome. I also have a Reacher and a spinnaker which are in fairly  good condition so somehow some point of sails are covered. 

 

I would confirm as well that the weather helm on a reach can be a little heavy especially with a bit of short swell catching on the skeg.

 

Thanks for the hint on letting the traveler go Chariot, I will have a go at that!

 

And Fish, "But also understanding all the rig and trim settings for different wind conditions, windy with flat water, windy with lumpy water, light with flat water, light with lumpy water, they all reuire different sail shapes, and understanding and getting those right will make a massive difference to performance."

​I am afraid I am not quite there with knowing the theoretical answer to that. I guess I feel how the boat is going and try to adjust things buy feeling what works. I wish I new it though...

 

Black Panther, I would be really interested in knowing how it all went for you offshore with your cav 32. I understand you had a bigger mast but, I would be really interested in knowing your heavy weather tactics while cruising.   What kind of stuff she doesn't like, what to avoid ect. I hope it is not to generic of a question.

 

Also, one last thing what is the name of that sail maker in Hong Kong? would you recommend them?

 

Again thank you all!!!

 

cheers

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Far East Sails. And no. IMO, you are better to by locally, and get local support and advice. A local sailmaker will come to your boat, and make sure it fits right, as well as help you get the best from it. 

 

There are others  like Far East Sails, Like Rolly Tasker Sails in Phuket, Thailand, if thats what you want.

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I've had quotes from some offshore lofts, Far East Sails are cheap - they cut corners and use reduced spec in all aspects of the sail. If you aren't a seasoned sail buyer, you will fall into a trap somewhere with the fabric grade or specification of the sail. Rolly Tasker have a stronger reputation for a quality that matches what they say. But, I've never purchased from an offshore loft. I've only ever used local lofts, the quality has always been spot on, but the service and additional advice is invaluable. Not to mention, if you go with an offshore loft you take all the risk on getting the measurements right, and understanding what you want and need. Oh, and there is not a lot of price difference with the local lofts. I have had offshore lofts quote the same or more than the local lofts, especially when I ensure I'm getting the same sail cloth.

 

One trick, I wanted a laminated radial cloth, for example a Dimension Polyant DCX (good mid range cruiser cloth). Far East quoted me on a DCX-C, I'm like, "sweet, same stuff" but no, DCX-C is a budget version of the DCX, very different in durability etc. Looks the same on the quote, you have t ogo through the quote details with a fine tooth comb.

 

Most of my sails are from Lidgards, the rest from Dave Giddens. Note also that winter is often a slow time for local sailmakers, so pricing can get sharper around this time of year...

 

On the sail trim settings for light wind / flat water etc, we originally learned that from a book on sail trimming. There was a double page diagram of sail shapes for the different types of conditions we photocopied and took sailing with us. I'll see if I can find it (I've memorised it all now), but it was just a case of read the book, try it out in practice, re-read the book, try it out, repeat until the boat was sailing really sweetly and we weren't getting last in club races anymore. (the book was probably called "Illustrated Sail Trim" or something like that)

 

Edit - the book we used to learn the sail trim shapes and settings was "Illustrated Sail & Rig Tuning"

https://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-Sail-Tuning-Nautical-Manuals/dp/1898660670

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PR. Big topic. Next time you see a long skinny black schooner come by and say hi.

Short answer is we saw 3 named cyclones. When people ask what we did in bad weather I tell we went to bed and put a pillow over our heads. The best thing you can learn is how to have to.

 

A full recital of my take on heavy weather cruising would be a small essay. If a few more people join in and say my opinion is worth listening to I'll take the time to write a post

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A full recital of my take on heavy weather cruising would be a small essay. If a few more people join in and say my opinion is worth listening to I'll take the time to write a post

 

Yes please do!

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The experiences of anyone who has actually done what they are talking about is always worthwhile. Experience (except in large fully crewed race boats, which are different) in heavy weather (say over 50 odd knots) in the open ocean is becoming more rare. Due to better weather info and planning, most cruisers manage to avoid these conditions now...

Go ahead BP!

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For fresh to heavy conditions i had Steve Trevurza make me a full hoist battened blade for our Cav 32. Was magic. Shame he no longer lives in NZ. Another good local sailmaker gone.

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