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Tiller pilot (again) which one?


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Expert advise needed to help me decide which tiller pilot I should buy. With endless budget I would go for Raymarine EV-100, unfortunately I have to deal with a few more thing therefore I have to save some coins... However the TP which came with my "new" boat is a crap. Another misfortune I can't let the tiller go even for a very short time which is probably the disadvantage of the spade rudder. In theory I only need to use TP for doing sail changes, I mean reefing or dropping sail. Longer legs I have an Aires wind vane.

As I already had a Raymarine St 2000+ (on my old boat) I know that is very delicate and doesn't take much get water damaged (I "nano coated" my one's circuit board which improved its resistance for water, but..). I was considering to move to Simrad. and here is the next question, what size. Topaz (my boat) is 10 m long (33 foot) and weighs 5.5 t in ready to go condition. Lengthwise TP22 is fine however the weight is slightly over. Should I follow the book and go for the 32, or 22 should be enough? Also which is the best place to buy (pricewise).

 

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If your boat is well balanced, ie not heavy to steer, the TP22 will be fine for that boat. Pm me if you'd like a price. Delivery usually 3-4 days from order.

Do you just want compass heading, or would it be good to have wind vane steering, nav, and way points?

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Get the 32, basically you can keep spending on electrical steering gear until you run out of money.  I wouldnt bother rushing it, you may be surprised at what you find out about boat handling as you learn to sail your new beast. Ive got a 32 and I dont really use it that much, sail changes? heave to. Reefing, much the same, just let it all go and get on with it. Perhaps the best use of  TP is long off the wind boards in light to moderate winds, or anchoring (up or down) in tight spots. On the wind when its fresh or downwind in rollers, forget it.

I can see your point, in the other hand good to have a TP to go below get a drink from the fridge on hot days.... so I still have a few months before I really need it...

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Also the re-foiled rudder is so much more neutral and AOA is way higher before stall. So much to learn...

What did you do to your rudder lateral? i.e. what size and foil shape from and to etc

We re-faired our keel to some Naca profile and it really helped upwind work (the re-fairing was preceded by some percussion hydrography...)

 

I've often looked at our rudder and thought it looks like a barn door, but then figure the boat sails well as is, the designer wasn't a slouch, and every other boat of our era has the same size / style rudder (early 80's kauri log)

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WTF is percussion hydrography? Is that when you throw the helmsman overboard?

 

It's when you confirm the location of a rock by hitting it with your boat.

Everyone's done it, right?

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I have a  Simrad TP22 that is not set up via nmea to plotter or wind I.e. It will only steer to course I use mine all the time, although my boat is lighter than yours Arpad. I wouldn't be without mine now...it just gives me so many options to do other things  while the boat is going from A to B. I am always very aware of balance when getting it to work comfortably for longish periods to ensure it doesn't  flog itself to death. Although, I did get caught out the other day under full main and masthead gennaker when the breeze built progressively over the afternoon and the boat jumped onto the plane and the apparent went forward... Interesting. Mine will hold a just cracked off course on the wind 30-40 degrees apparent quite happily in 20 knots.


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I have a  Simrad TP22 that is not set up via nmea to plotter or wind I.e. It will only steer to course I use mine all the time, although my boat is lighter than yours Arpad. I wouldn't be without mine now...it just gives me so many options to do other things  while the boat is going from A to B. I am always very aware of balance when getting it to work comfortably for longish periods to ensure it doesn't  flog itself to death. Although, I did get caught out the other day under full main and masthead gennaker when the breeze built progressively over the afternoon and the boat jumped onto the plane and the apparent went forward... Interesting. Mine will hold a just cracked off course on the wind 30-40 degrees apparent quite happily in 20 knots.

 

Cheers Matt (?) Yes Topaz slightly heavier when she is full of "crap", I'm still taking stuff from board. The design weight is 3800kg so have lots of thing to remove, at least what I never will use. However  around 5000kg is pretty much a reasonable target to achieve and that is just the max on the 22. I always been curious why is the weight restriction on TPs because the required force on the helm depends on the balance. In fact you could struggle to hold a 22 footer trailer sailer's tiller when easily can hold the tiller on a 40 footer ferro boat with two fingers. So I'm fairly confident 22 should be enough for the purpose. In terms of use, I had no issue with the ST 2000+ apart from the lack of water tightness. Even parts are reasonably cheap for it I just lost my faith on. I hope Simrad is a bit more robust.

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You will wish you never bought raymarine. Biggest problem with TPs we found apart from moisture is fluxgates. They use a very fast switching set of fine wire coils to measure the earths magnetic field and often lose it then take a while to detect it again. A simple GPS chip would work but for some reason none have them probably because until the vessel is moving they have no heading. We've had a TP10 which would wander incessantly and a ST1000 which is simply a pile of crap. NMEA blows up too easily on them as they use an opto-isolator so now its a TP32 sitting here ready for summer. A trick to keeping water off is get an old raincoat and cut a sleeve off, they slide on perfectly.

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Annoying, did a big technical post and it vanished!? The short version then? The ST1000 is still usable so going to install a bulox M8030-KT GPS chip in it. Bypass the optoisolator and feed nmea in directly, just need to find 5v on the mother board. Got a full circuit diagram so a rainy day project. Will post what happens. The TP should hold a course whilst moving dead accurately but of course no waypoints.

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I have a full TP32/ B&G setup on my boat, a bit different to naggy’s boat, being a modified Ross 830 with much bigger than standard sails. Been in the boat about 4 years now and all good. I have the RC42 external compass, installed before the P9 was a thing, although I will upgrad sometime. The system is awesome. I can control the pilot from the front of the cockpit through the chart plotter which swings out of the companion way which makes it much easier, especially when the tp is to leeward. It has held the boat going upwind with code 0 and full main, in up to 15 knots, single handed, then downwind with a fractional gennaker up, I had to trim to keep balance, but the TP32 did a great job, the only round-up was when I tried to helm, as I couldn’t helm and trim fast enough. I was sailing to heading, waypoint and wind at various times. You can also get a wireless AP remote, which would be handy for raising / dropping sails, no more running back to adjust heading, that’s on my upgrade list also.

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Run the RM EVO with separate ram and compass with wireless remote. No complaints. Also use an ST 2000 With a wired seatalk remote as a back up. 2RNIs and a Three Kings and still trucking. Best to keep it simple in my view so that when things don't work you at least have a chance of repairing.

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Anyone using a TP 22 or 32 with a Simrad MFD? (Simnet not 0183). Does the built in autopilot function of the MFD come up on screen when the TP is plugged in? I think this only works on Simnet /N2K not 0183. Going to try to get our 0183 anemometer to talk to the TP via the MFD. The wind speed and angle comes up on the MFD so should work. Buggar all info on line.

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Anyone using a TP 22 or 32 with a Simrad MFD? (Simnet not 0183). Does the built in autopilot function of the MFD come up on screen when the TP is plugged in? I think this only works on Simnet /N2K not 0183. Going to try to get our 0183 anemometer to talk to the TP via the MFD. The wind speed and angle comes up on the MFD so should work. Buggar all info on line.

Yes. Simnet is N2k for all intents and purposes. The mfd software will identify the TP as an AP, and those controls will be enabled.

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Yes. Simnet is N2k for all intents and purposes. The mfd software will identify the TP as an AP, and those controls will be enabled.

 

Are you 100% on this? I thought the N2k on the TP series only  did heading outputs and a couple other little bits on n2k but no control from MFD, ie no +1 +10 etc from a navico MFD

 

I hooked one up breifly as a test and could't get any AP functions to show..

 

Seriously hoping I am wrong, but I want to see it with my own eyes before I shell out for a new TP and p9...

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Are you 100% on this? I thought the N2k on the TP series only  did heading outputs and a couple other little bits on n2k but no control from MFD, ie no +1 +10 etc from a navico MFD

 

I hooked one up breifly as a test and could't get any AP functions to show..

 

Seriously hoping I am wrong, but I want to see it with my own eyes before I shell out for a new TP and p9...

 

Yep, I can confirm it does (on mine at least).  I have a TP-32, P9 and Vulcan 7 all connected via N2K and can control steer to heading from the MFD i.e. +-1 and +-10.  You can also set a way-point (or route) and enable navigate mode from the MFD.

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