Steve Pope 243 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I understood that flares are no longer required, or have I misunderstood?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
robinm 2 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 It’s really not that bad, we did cat1 and have spent the season cruising in New Caledonia and Vanuatu and it has been great. Most boats I’ve met from Australia would pass anyway. Apart from the ridiculous price of flares in NZ and having to screw down floorboards, it all seems like pretty common sense safety stuff anyway. Actually I’d like to transmitting AIS added so I have less ghost ships to contend with on night watch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,581 Posted October 18, 2018 Author Share Posted October 18, 2018 I think you are missing the point Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,234 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 BP, you comply with the road rules, WOF, etc, what’s the difference? It’s regulations for the lowest common denominator. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,581 Posted October 18, 2018 Author Share Posted October 18, 2018 But this thread is about whether they are actually working. And people regularly debate what the road rules should be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Actually I’d like to transmitting AIS added so I have less ghost ships to contend with on night watch. Ghost ships are the trawlers / tuna boats out of Fiji and other dodgy flag states. Nothing you can do to CAT 1 will stop those guys turning off their AIS - they don't want others to see where they are catching fish... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
robinm 2 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Ok, to the point: yes, it’s probably a good idea to have safety inspections, but it would be great if it were less judgemental on specifics and have more room for the variety of boats out there. Having said that, it exists and if you want to go cruising, get a boat which can pass and work through the checklist, you will have a more seaworthy boat than when you started, in my opinion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crazyhorse 47 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 As I understand it, cat1 was adopted from the racing fraternity as the government of the day thought they were spending too much on rescuing "idiots" who think it's all sweet to pack some sandwiches and sail off to the tropics? Instead of coming up with something that does not cost $30k to pass and is realistic (what use is a throw line to a single hander?), Cat1 was there ready and waiting. I know I've suggested this before but whats wrong with "rescue insurance"? Don't have it then no clearance. There will be those who won't have it leaving the tax payer to foot the bill but then they won't be cleared out. A single hander is only putting their own lives in jeopardy (and probably rescuers) so nanny state should back off. If there are sailing with crew, not so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 I know I've suggested this before but whats wrong with "rescue insurance"? Don't have it then no clearance. There will be those who won't have it leaving the tax payer to foot the bill but then they won't be cleared out. A single hander is only putting their own lives in jeopardy (and probably rescuers) so nanny state should back off. If there are sailing with crew, not so. Because the number of rescues and cost of rescue is not an issue. Cost of rescue never has been an issue. All NZ's rescue assets are fixed cost / overhead costs. Always have been. NZ will always have an MRCC, defense force assets and Police department regardless of how many guys go sailing with just some ham sandwichs and a thermos of coffee. The regulations are around the govt (i.e. bureaucrats) intentions to "reduce harm". You need to be saved from yourself Crazyhorse, you just don't know it yet. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,581 Posted October 18, 2018 Author Share Posted October 18, 2018 It was imposed after lionheart hit the rocks trying to enter whangaroa at night in bad weather. Which was a bad judgement call and nothing to do with the boat or its equipment. But you're right they grabbed onto cat 1 to shut up the lollies. Now they just add more nonsense everytime there is a high profile incident. Truth is offshore sailing is not that risky, the best safety equipment is between your ears, cat 1 doesn't seem to be working so well and plenty of people are registering offshore to avoid it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crazyhorse 47 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Because the number of rescues and cost of rescue is not an issue. Cost of rescue never has been an issue. All NZ's rescue assets are fixed cost / overhead costs. Always have been. NZ will always have an MRCC, defense force assets and Police department regardless of how many guys go sailing with just some ham sandwichs and a thermos of coffee. The regulations are around the govt (i.e. bureaucrats) intentions to "reduce harm". You need to be saved from yourself Crazyhorse, you just don't know it yet. True..but Google it, the media would have you think otherwise: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10349882 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 642 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 If I have this correct,Cat1 is crock,valid for 1 month before departure date??so customs only want to see your cert?so borrow the gear get cat1 and hand it all back,who would be any the wiser?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crazyhorse 47 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 If I have this correct,Cat1 is crock,valid for 1 month before departure date??so customs only want to see your cert?so borrow the gear get cat1 and hand it all back,who would be any the wiser?? No one unless you get caught. Hire a liferaft then take it back after etc? Consider a MOB and they find out..ouch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 True..but Google it, the media would have you think otherwise: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10349882 That will teach you for reading the Herald... complete waste of time. Quoting un-named officials who don't want to be named, who give 'estimates' that are no more than a wild guess. Then 1/4 mil for a 'survival pack', consisting of a 10 man liferaft, and what else? I want the contract supplying those lifrerafts... what a joke. Not considering that there wasn't a problem with the yacht floating, just the injuries to the guy, so not sure what they needed liferafts dropped for. Probably explain why the 10 man raft blew away after they deployed it...According to my sea survival course, 2 people in a 10 man raft is not at all safe, they flip too easily and, oh, blow away.... Classic fact free Herald piece. Said the yacht was heading to the Cook Islands, but didn't say where from... more questions than answers. Third last line says actual costs of helicopter and fixed wing aircraft was actually $30k (an order of magnitude different from $1 mil) Note the second last line: Rescue centre spokesman Lindsay Sturt said the cost of keeping the Orion in the air was included in the annual costs of the air force and separating out one incident was not easy. And I wont comment on that story being from 2005. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin McCready 83 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Fuel is not a fixed cost. Likely too that other opex will bump up rescue costs ratio. To the extent that Cat 1 encourages a better safety culture, I welcome it. Seems to me that securing possible flying objects, including floor boards, cupboards etc, is a great idea. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Fuel is not a fixed cost. Likely too that other opex will bump up rescue costs ratio. To the extent that Cat 1 encourages a better safety culture, I welcome it. Seems to me that securing possible flying objects, including floor boards, cupboards etc, is a great idea. The airforce has a fixed annual budget. If they don't achieve their flying hours (including allocated fuel) doing missions, they just go and do donuts in the sky, sorry, I mean "training exercises", until their allotted budget is spent. It the old 'use it or loose it' mantra that govt departments and local bodies go by when it comes to your money, sorry, I mean budgets. So far there is no evidence that CAT 1 increases safety or reduces rescue costs. What evidence there is suggests that boats with CAT 1 are more likely to be rescued... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 642 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 KM there poses another question,"skipper is responsible"?fair enough. But how does ynz/mnz etc know what my capabilities are?I may never of sailed or even been on a vessel till last week ,until I brought this vessel. So begs the question if I have no experience and the powers to say no too giving me CAT1 due to lack of experience. Would it not ended up in court under human rights? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crazyhorse 47 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 That will teach you for reading the Herald... complete waste of time. Quoting un-named officials who don't want to be named, who give 'estimates' that are no more than a wild guess. Then 1/4 mil for a 'survival pack', consisting of a 10 man liferaft, and what else? I want the contract supplying those lifrerafts... what a joke. Not considering that there wasn't a problem with the yacht floating, just the injuries to the guy, so not sure what they needed liferafts dropped for. Probably explain why the 10 man raft blew away after they deployed it...According to my sea survival course, 2 people in a 10 man raft is not at all safe, they flip too easily and, oh, blow away.... Classic fact free Herald piece. Said the yacht was heading to the Cook Islands, but didn't say where from... more questions than answers. Third last line says actual costs of helicopter and fixed wing aircraft was actually $30k (an order of magnitude different from $1 mil) Note the second last line: Rescue centre spokesman Lindsay Sturt said the cost of keeping the Orion in the air was included in the annual costs of the air force and separating out one incident was not easy. [/size] And I wont comment on that story being from 2005. All I said was the media would have you believe otherwise...sheesh! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin McCready 83 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 "human rights PC wankery" ??? Tell me you didn't mean this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 All I said was the media would have you believe otherwise...sheesh! Sorry Crazyhorse. Its the Herald, it winds me up, its like the Womens Day masquerading as a newspaper. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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