Do cat one inspections do any good?

[Black Panther 1,692]

There are a number of things that would make a boat safer that aren't covered in the regs. The regs are quite limited and have an unhealthy bias towards the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

 

Point reamains that the numbers suggest there is something wrong with the current model. But any recent changes have been in the "mindlessly adding sh*t to the list" category. I think it is time for a complete rethink. And maybe this time confer with the cruisers affected.

[Black Panther 1,692]

Of course YNZ don't talk to sailors coz they only represent yacht clubs.

Question: how many cruisers don't belong to a YC?

[Freedom GBE 27]

The different stats between foreign boats getting rescued and NZ ones, could be that many of the foreign boats perrished because they had no comunication. We will never know, but paints a grim statistic if this is the case.

 

Many foreign boats have no comunication and limp into ports. Most NZ boats getting rescued could have easily limped in. NZ has a culture of racing even if we are cruising, race is on, we don't limp around. I see many foreign boats and say to myself that must be so slow and painful.

[Black Panther 1,692]

The different stats between foreign boats getting rescued and NZ ones, could be that many of the foreign boats perrished because they had no comunication. We will never know, but paints a grim statistic if this is the case.

 

Many foreign boats have no comunication and limp into ports. Most NZ boats getting rescued could have easily limped in. NZ has a culture of racing even if we are cruising, race is on, we don't limp around. I see many foreign boats and say to myself that must be so slow and painful.

Don't know where you get that from. Definitely not what I have observed

[Fish 0]

The different stats between foreign boats getting rescued and NZ ones, could be that many of the foreign boats perrished because they had no comunication. We will never know, but paints a grim statistic if this is the case.

 

Many foreign boats have no comunication and limp into ports. Most NZ boats getting rescued could have easily limped in. NZ has a culture of racing even if we are cruising, race is on, we don't limp around. I see many foreign boats and say to myself that must be so slow and painful.

Yeah, its like there are thousands of people dying in the ocean between North Cape and Fiji, and all these ghost yachts just drifting around washing up on beaches.

None of these foreign yachts have EPIRB's, let alone sat phones, or irridium Go's, half of them aren't running blogs with their comms, hell, none of them even have friends or families, never talk to other cruisers and never ever clear in or out of customs, and if they do, their friends, families or other cruisers  have no interest in knowing where they are, after these many foreign boats perish without a trace...

 

Good grief man, you need to stop smoking what ever it is your on and come back to reality.

[Dtwo 157]

Interesting thread, thank you BP for the hard yards.

 

It would be interesting to know if there is a difference in the number of rescues between the yachts leaving NZ versus the yachts heading to NZ.  The fact being that NZ registered yachts need a Cert to leave, but not to arrive.  When I bought my boat in from Hawaii, there would be no way in hell it would have passed a Cat 1 inspection.  Would a skipper run through the Cat 1 manual prior to leaving Fiji on the way home, after a circumnavigation?  I think not.  

 

So we have a system set up to improve safety standards through regulation, that can only influence outbound yachts.  If you could show a 50:50 split of rescues between arrivals and departures, you could infer that Cat 1 is a waste of time.

 

And I'm still trying to think why a lanyard on a bucket is a required safety feature.

[Priscilla II 410]

The lanyard improves the survival opportunities for the bucket....

Buckets have lives too.

[armchairadmiral 411]

You make good points BP. But,YNZ represents clubs and there are only a small percentage of clubs whose members are affected by Cat.1 (or 2 or 3 for that matter). So those sitting around the table in a warm safe secure stable room know better. Adding piles of gear is a safe way to ensure that they are"doing their best". Usually its the people that give up,not the boat and it's a point to ponder that if they didn't have the gear would they have got themselves out of trouble. So don't hold your breath for sensible change and expect $000's of more gear requirement. And not forgetting the expensive courses with expiry dates for repetition fees.

[Steve Pope 253]

The different stats between foreign boats getting rescued and NZ ones, could be that many of the foreign boats perrished because they had no comunication. We will never know, but paints a grim statistic if this is the case.

 

Many foreign boats have no comunication and limp into ports. Most NZ boats getting rescued could have easily limped in. NZ has a culture of racing even if we are cruising, race is on, we don't limp around. I see many foreign boats and say to myself that must be so slow and painful.

I'm not sure what you base that statement on? I have come across many foreign offshore cruisers over the years, & I cannot think of one that didn't have SSB or Ham + VHF, or in the old days DSB. + now sat phones etc. The single handed yacht that the officials made jump through hoops a couple of years back becaus it looked scruffy and he had plants on deck had a very sophisticated communication setup. After having him slip & correct some minor thing to do with the (rudder?) they sent him out into storm conditions. No concern for his safety, just wanted him gone!

FYI most cruisers average between 4 to 5 knots over the length of a cruise, yes they are slow, but generally sure.

[Neil 35]

Just a thought on the stats. Is it a case of (averaged over time and over many departures) more problems will occur in the first leg than in the subsequent legs of a long journey, particularly any unknown weak links in untested gear or crew? Thus NZ boats leaving are all (mostly) on the first leg of an off-shore cruise while the foreign boats have already been through that "first leg" test. Not saying it is the reason but it's a possible statistical anomaly.

 

A good comparison would be to know the proportion of UK boats leaving the UK and the proportion of UK boats needing rescue (or any other country for that matter).

 

Thoughts?   

[Jon 395]

Tend to agree Neil.

The thing with most departures from other countries is it’s not in the South Pacific and not 1000nm plus straight up.

Your average club skipper here is a better sailor than half the offshore sailor you run into around the world (hopefully not literally) but they often aren’t as good a seaman, than comes with mileage

[Steve Pope 253]

I'm sure yachts leaving the UK would have different conditions to NZ, What with cross channel heavy heavy shipping No's, in places huge tides and rips, currents etc., Channel Isl. / Brittany for example, and on the UK side, ever shifting sand banks, and drying out "small" Harbours. Going further afield Bay of Biscay, the Med, West Indies there would be close paralels. Being no less challenging compared to NZ coastal waters (excluding Hauraki Gulf, B.o.I. and further North. There is a reason for the sobriquet "Gulf Cruiser) Not benign but more so than the rest of NZ's coastline.

The Small Ships Register was set up to assist Yachties etc. to be able to cruise without going through the rigmarole of complying with the hastles and costs of the commercial shipping paperwork. (current SSR costs app $55.00 NZ for 5 years )  NZ's yacht Registration was basically a copy of the British system and initially cost around the same. Unfortunately our registry over the last few years has become as an easy cash cow with Rego costs now up around $1150.00 for 5 years though in actual fact it is 4 1/2 years, if you don't renew at that point there is a penalty charge.

The No. of yachts leaving the UK yearly would (i imagine) eclipse the NZ fleet several times over.

[Black Panther 1,692]

Re the "our waters are tougher than...".    I have heard this in nearly every place I have ever been.

 

Neil may have a point that the NZ boats include a higher proportion of first timers. 

 

Meanwhile I would love to see a serious look at the current situation by YNZ. Look at the Platino incident. They responded by including cruisers in their silly (and expensive) how to get rescued course. Please explain how that would have had any relevance to the crew of Platino. It leaves me thinking that every time there is a high profile incident they just up the ante, it shuts a few people up and life gets harder for the cruisers.

[harrytom 679]

Boycott YNZ/MNZ get a group together and say thats it,we are off to who knows where and we are not paying. What would the powers to be do?? Get the navy to board every vessel and then try to figure out how to sail??

[chariot 244]

I think the trouble may start at the other end.

[Fish 0]

Boycott YNZ/MNZ get a group together and say thats it,we are off to who knows where and we are not paying. What would the powers to be do?? Get the navy to board every vessel and then try to figure out how to sail??

Considering you need CAT 1 to clear customs, I think your wee protest will run in to heavy bureaucratic "weather", especially when trying to clear into where ever you are going.

Would possibly be a good way of getting on one of those drug smugglers watch lists and have the full monty tear the boat apart search every time you try go anywhere thereafter.

 

Don't dissagree the system needs changing though, thinking perhaps a petition or general lobbying might be a safer, easier and more effective avenue?

[harrytom 679]

Considering you need CAT 1 to clear customs, I think your wee protest will run in to heavy bureaucratic "weather", especially when trying to clear into where ever you are going.

Would possibly be a good way of getting on one of those drug smugglers watch lists and have the full monty tear the boat apart search every time you try go anywhere thereafter.

 

Don't dissagree the system needs changing though, thinking perhaps a petition or general lobbying might be a safer, easier and more effective avenue?

The yacht "Your Honour is my home .I didn't like the neighbours so I moved"

[PeteG 13]

At the end of the day you can make your own choices. 1) sit at home and complain about the costs and the Cat 1 system and try and invent wsys to get around it.

2)just get on with it and go cruising as you only get this life once.

By the way, it is another great day in Fiji today !

[Nzgrant 19]

no need to invent ways to get around YNZ's cat1 just register offshore.

[rigger 47]

Last trip my flares expired a week before I left. I didn't replace them as I knew I would be 2-3 years before I went again.

 

Flares with a max of 4years rather than 3years can be bought now.