Where are the youth?

[Kick Ass 47]

The costs of life have gone up, as well as boat maintenance. Some off the costs (marinas and haulouts especially) are close to making die hard sailors give up.

There still are cost effective options out there, we pay $700 a year to keep our boat on the piles and we use the dry out grid for small bits of maintanance and then use the slip way for doing anything major.

 

All is alot more work but keeps boating affordable.

[Kick Ass 47]

Which piles? Surely not Westhaven.

Weiti Boating club

[Fish 0]

Thats a whole different world, I could use a mooring at about the same or less per year running costs but there is the hassle of drive-dinghy-row-motor to start-then reverse on the way home, Weiti is quite unique in that its pretty much all weather and easy access but you also have tide to account for, Milford is also cheap but limited in size and access.

 

A mooring is great but definitely more wear and tear on the boat.

Life is full of compromises.

That whole drive-dinghy-row-motor thing enables a lot of people to go sailing where the 'mainstream' option would exclude them from doing so. Kind of helps if you get your head around not needing to keep your boat in the heart of NZ's biggest city too.

 

As a note, I can get from the carpark to the boat in the same time or less on a mooring as I can from a marina carpark to the boat if its parked anywhere from half way up the pier to the end of the pier. And I don't have to f*ck around finding a trolley either

 

And did I mention the parking enforcement? Probably not, there isn't any....

[Kick Ass 47]

Thats a whole different world, I could use a mooring at about the same or less per year running costs but there is the hassle of drive-dinghy-row-motor to start-then reverse on the way home, Weiti is quite unique in that its pretty much all weather and easy access but you also have tide to account for, Milford is also cheap but limited in size and access.

 

A mooring is great but definitely more wear and tear on the boat.

If i had that attitude i wouldnt own a boat because yes it is to expensive.

 

That is another issue, people are getting lazy and don't want to put the extra work in to make something achievable/affordable.

[Fish 0]

Those in club management roles have been too blind to see this trainwreck coming and its been rolling down the track for 20 years now. Look no further than the two main factors, the costs and the culture.  Dont believe me? Go to ANY yacht club AGM and spot the person under 70 without a zimmer frame and a nurse.

Sounds like you go to the wrong AGM's.

 

Given the option of adapt or die, it just sounds like you want to die.

 

Yes society is changing. Society changes every decade. Its not that hard to adapt. Largely a state of mind, followed by behaviorally change. It starts with attitude, like a will to do something about it.

 

I'm very interested in what KM is getting at, and the gist of things that people like Gappy talk of. I don't want my kids to be the only ones out there, sailing around in circles by themselves.

[Fish 0]

Not at all Fish, the point I am making is the the sport belongs to the older age group at the moment. Anyway this is not about me or what i think but perhaps I do go to the wrong AGM's but show me a keelboat racing oriented club where the bulk of the membership is in their 20's and 30's and not middle aged and beyond. I actively encourage younger sailors and make it as easy as possible for them to join in.

Kick has already given an (and is) and excellent example of a 20 something with a keelboat and into racing. I'm in the same club as him. He's given valid examples of how he makes owning a boat work for him.

If your visibility is Royal yacht clubs and keeping your boat in marina's in the heart of the city, maybe the future of sailing is dead. I'm trying to point out that there are alternatives. Its about changing with the times. I'm pulling you up on the attitude that its all hopeless so don't bother trying.

 

There are pockets doing really well, or who have found a formula that works, i.e. this sailing trust up north. I'd like to hear more about those than the message its all hopeless. Which is possibly what KM is hinting at with his private messages.

 

Pop quiz, there are two female commodores of yacht clubs in Auckland, which clubs are they?

[harrytom 642]

unfortunately the listing has gone from my trade me,but today a salthouse 25 1/4 tonner in reasonable condition sold for $4.5k is this the sign of things to come. From the photos looked tidy and ready to go,cheap cruising yacht.10hp bukh

[mattm 98]

I fit a similar mould to Kick. Been sailing all my life, parents had trailer yachts then keelers, I raced dinghies as a kid. Never stopped at any stage of life, I’m a full scale addict. Early 30’s now, have been racing my own boat at a keeler club now for about 8 years. Just did my first cat 3 race in my own boat, very cool. Owning a boat at my age certainly makes me an exception to the rule at my club.

 

On the plus side. I’m seeing a good surge in 20 to 30 years olds, both returning to sailing, or taking up sailing locally by crewing on keel boats, there’s a lot more younger people around the club now than 10 years ago. Im the oldest on my boat now.

 

The issues I see are -

Not many younger people want to go sailing with a bunch of old people they don’t know and can’t relate to. Unless they know someone to go with, showing up to a club to ask to sail with some random old people doesn’t likely seem that appealing.

 

People who could afford a boat - likely those doing better than average, are so busy with their career and life in general, they don’t have time for the commitment of owning a boat them selves. There are so many different things to do on offer now, it’s not worth owning a boat to sail occasionally, it’s all (like us) or nothing. No time left for boat ownership.

 

These same people, busy with their careers, are doing so, so they can afford to pay high rents or huge mortgages, the radio tells me today they are doing so on poor wages. The money they have left is spread over many different hobbies. No money left for boat ownership.

 

The Facebook generation encourages you to post pics of doing some new cool exciting thing every weekend, travel, beach, ski holiday, what ever. A yacht is a huge time and money commitment to one thing, not so cool anymore.

 

I’d like to think kids who get into sailing have some kind of higher aspirations than average, leaving school to go to uni, get good jobs or travel etc, where they leave sailing due to cost, lack of time or being away from home etc. this is where the disconnect comes from, where numbers drop for teens. I’m not sure what would change that for anyone other than the addicts.

 

Maybe the dinghy clubs should do more days where they just go for a blast around the harbour, maybe sail to an island and camp for the night. Show the kids who don’t win every race that it can be for fun too. Those are the kids Sailing is loosing, and the kids who could own keel boats, the top kids will be at the olympics or paid crew over seas somewhere.

[Fish 0]

Maybe the dinghy clubs should do more days where they just go for a blast around the harbour, maybe sail to an island and camp for the night. Show the kids who don’t win every race that it can be for fun too. Those are the kids Sailing is loosing, and the kids who could own keel boats, the top kids will be at the olympics or paid crew over seas somewhere.

There is a lot in this I reckon. I'm removed from the dinghy scene cause my kids are too young, but I have been following it with interest (cause I want to get my kids into it).

 

The main advantage, and some would say the only advantage of an Optimist is that they were built out of plywood. Back in the day you could build one at home, or clubs set up building bees, with a jig so parents could produce class legal boats very cheaply. Now Opti's are made out of fibreglass, you can't build them at home and no one even tries. Those days are dead, along with mullets and Ford Cortina's. Opti's even have a class structure where the old wooden shitters race in one fleet, and the kids with the cool new boats race in another fleet. So if you have to purchase manufactured one design learner boat, would it be an Opti or something else?

 

I've been hearing a lot of positive things about the O'pen Bic, more lively, more interesting, more fun to sail? Related to that is this new type of 'racing' where you have to do barrel rolls and sail under archways and stuff. Playing instead of training (or as teachers call it, learning by play).

 

Only one kid gets to win a race. If you are one of the kids with an old wooden boat, or maybe a newer glass boat, but old sails, traipsing around following the others will get boring fast. Some of the games on the water, destination races etc really add some variety to it.

 

The neighbours kids are getting into it at Manly SC, on Bics and RS Feva's and the like, sometimes referred to as tuppaware boats. But they are getting into it. So what happens next? Well already the boy thats having fun in the Bic wants to try out a Wasp. If ever you wanted something to appeal to whatever the younger generation is called now, foiling boats would be it.

 

So the way forward? Technology advancements. We need a cost effective, robust foiling trainer. Allow foils, not carbon. Either on an existing platform (you can get a foiling kit for a Bic now!) or a new dedicated foiling platform, maybe like a UFO. Here is the catch, clubs or trusts need to get a set of foiling boats together to give it a critical mass, then make them available for club use / run training in them to get those mid teens kids that are out of the trainer classes into something exciting and fast.

 

Sound crazy? My first thought was giving a 12 y/o a Wasp to take out would be like giving him the keys to a Farrari. But given the right platform and spec, I think long term, this is where youth dinghy sailing is headed. Its in line with international developments in the Vendee and AC, its fast and well suited to twitbook skitting, and its even inline with some of the Olympic class directions such as the foiling Nacra, not to mention kite foiling or windsurfer foiling etc.

 

Wont be everyone's cup of tea, but I believe the old plywood classes have had their day (unfortunately) and the way forward is the new technology. It may not need to be foiling, but it needs to be fast and exciting. And as Tazzy Devil said, make sure to ask the kids what they want, and provide that. Don't try and provide what you think they need...

[Fish 0]

The most popular sports have simple gear, including one of the most popular sport ever- soccer. Want you kids to play it, then all you need are boots and a hundred bucks for club fees, other parents often share the driving and its a team sport. Foiling is not the answer unless it gets way cheaper

 

Kids like to do what other kids do, If all your mates are sailors youll probably want to get into it as well.

And one day you might be able to come up with a constructive post, or perhaps offer an idea you thought of yourself?

Nah, nothing new will work, we are just doomed, don't worry about it. Doomed I say, doomed...

[Fish 0]

Charteris Bay is a typical New Zealand yacht club. Established in 1939 on the opposite side of Lyttelton Harbour to the port, their focus over the last 40 years had been predominantly on junior sailing – they were the first club in this country to set  up Optimists – but more latterly have made an effort to attract senior sailors. They now regularly attract 15 Paper Tigers and half a dozen Finns for club racing, as well as the junior classes. The local community also support a busy adult learn to sail group called grey fleet.

 

Fittingly, the club reintroduced adventure sailing recently. They found many older teenagers

and adults still wanted to sail but weren’t interested in racing and Lyttelton Harbour has many beautiful bays and beaches accessible in most weather.

 

So the Optimist came out how long ago? It's time for new kit, foiling or not, modern, fast and fun.

Interesting that a club in a tiny settlement like Charteris Bay can do well. Note the 'adventure sailing'...

 

https://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/news/aon-club-month-charteris-bay-yacht-club

[Tazzy Devil 18]

I’m not sure foiling is completely the answer but getting away from racing in opti’s I think is.

 

Adventure sailing will bring loads more into the sport. The RS boats are perfect for that and if owned by clubs and leased or rented out make access super easy. Seen a few successful clubs doing that with bic’s where kids co-share and annual lease so they have their own boat on their sailing night.

 

It does need a mindset shift and unfortunately those who volunteer to coach are often retirees who understandably may struggle to connect with young people and their needs.

 

There are some great plywood diy boats out there, the NZ moth is one that could be a good pathway.

 

Firebugs, p’s and opti’s should be consigned to history though.

[muzled 140]

Maybe the dinghy clubs should do more days where they just go for a blast around the harbour, maybe sail to an island and camp for the night. Show the kids who don’t win every race that it can be for fun too. Those are the kids Sailing is loosing, and the kids who could own keel boats, the top kids will be at the olympics or paid crew over seas somewhere.

 

That's a bloody interesting thought!  It's those sort of things that make memories that stick with kids for life as well, and if those memories stick they're more likely to stay with it.

 

We spent quite a bit of time skiing this year, the bits the kids liked the most was going on little missions into the gulleys and guts the volcano has, stuff that tested them a bit, the last day we walked up to the crater lake, skiing down was by far the highlight of the season for them.  That's the same as sailing out to an island and camping.

 

My oldest fella is 8 now so old enough to do the youth thing at Milford which I was quite keen to get him to do but it's every Friday night and that interferes with me (us as a family) going out in our boat some now I'm not that keen on the idea, but after reading about the posters here that raced dinghy's as kids I'm wondering if I need to rethink my thinking...

[Dtwo 157]

Maybe the dinghy clubs should do more days where they just go for a blast around the harbour, maybe sail to an island and camp for the night. Show the kids who don’t win every race that it can be for fun too. Those are the kids Sailing is loosing, and the kids who could own keel boats, the top kids will be at the olympics or paid crew over seas somewhere.

 

Sadly, the "lifejacket while in sight of a puddle" brigade is never going to let that happen.  

[mattm 98]

Sadly, the "lifejacket while in sight of a puddle" brigade is never going to let that happen.

Why not? They could still have life jackets, and adults in safety boats carrying tents and food.... I can’t see any increase in danger over what clubs do now.

[Tazzy Devil 18]

When we lived in Waiuku they did a learn to sail graduation where the kids sailed up the manukau to Clark’s beach YC, then camped with the parents overnight. It involved 4 hrs destination sailing, tent pitching, games of spotlight, games of volleyball and bbq food. Had like 30kids. 3 years on my now 12 yr old still remembers it.

 

I think they still do it - they do the whole L2S program with the Clarks beach trip as a goal. The Manukau has some insane tides and winds so I’m sure other clubs in more sedate waters could handle this sort of thing.

 

Took him on the coastal this year (which was a very long one for us) and he loved that too so I hope he’s hooked for life!

[DrWatson 374]

Perhaps some formal structure for boat partnerships that people can enrol in like Uber sailing. write an app, post it on facebook or something....

 

This actually happens around here. Normal people set up boat sharing schemes. And there is at least one more organised website based setup, where boats are owned by individuals, but effectively chartered to approved users on an hourly to daily basis. But there's no "in survey" or other stuff to deal with. 

[Guest Saturday Night Special]

The issue is Fall off .The kids are started off in learn to sail programs at Yacht clubs which are generally booked out well in advance and are run in 2 levels (1 and 2) the first drop off is after this when parents have to buy a boat for their child.The next drop off occurs after the opti Green fleet whereby now you know if the child is keen ,talllented or just not intereseted. Then there is the next step which now seems to create the biggest fall off the opti open fleet traveling circus .this is so intenses and bitter and twisted that by the end of it a lot of parents just grab their kids and run .The bic has offed a small alternative to this but it is gaining momentum and heading down the exact same track.So after the opti circus the stayers are there They Generally do season in a P and move to a starling for a couple of seasons Then the real problem begins there is nothing after this unless you kid has international asperatioins 29er is expensive and weight constraints pose a real issue same with 420 ,laser reasonable weight range but just not interesting for kids who want to go 2 handed .we destroyed all the boats we had that the aussie still have like the cherub and the follow on effect from this is now hitting home no kids going on to be boat builders,sailmakers of other associated trades So its not just yachting that is suffering because of this .

[Guest Saturday Night Special]

Here are 2 examples of boats that we created and still going great guns accross the ditch still home built in aussie(Yes they still do that ) or can be purchased from a class builder Kids from these classes generally go on to sail on the larger Keel boats in the region unlike the high performance group who just chase medals  breed kids and repeat the process.

[Black Panther 1,581]

I suggest all parents and coaches to be minimum 5 miles from the start line when racing is underway.