Abandoned Boats

[Fish 0]

Article on abandoned boats in Auckland by Radio NZ. Apparently 1 a week is scrapped by the HM.

 

The article refers mainly to boat owners who can't afford the upkeep of their boat (i.e. letting it go).

 

It doesn't make any reference to ill health and death getting in the way of people both using and maintaining their boat. Keeping the dream alive can be a very important aspect of battling ill health, i.e. cancer or the like. That and your energy and resources are a bit tied up fighting for your life to worry about dealing with things like the lawns and the anti-fouling.

 

The other aspect is - how do you get rid of a stuffed boat, if you want to?

The rules and regulations about dumping parts of a boat (once broken down) must be eye-watering. Talking hazardous and contaminated materials here. Then of course, if someone is battling ill health, how are they going to organise scrapping a boat?

 

Are there any businesses that would scrap a boat for you? I'm not aware of any. So if you've got an old shitter, that has zero market value, but is cluttering up a nice pristine bay somewhere, what can you do with it?

 

You could take it out the back of Rangi and sink it. I doubt many would take that option, on the grounds of the environment.

 

So, best just leave it until the HM sorts it. Clutter the bay up, pose a hazard to others etc.

 

Alternatively, if Auckland Council (or AT) but some funding towards cleaning up our harbours and bays, they could have an amnesty on old shitters, and save a hole lot of headache, both cost, administration, and risk to the environment.

 

AT pay for abandoned shitters anyway, so why not front foot it, and have either a free or token cost to dispose of unwanted boats.

 

Council already pays for inorganic collection - I had 4 guys, a ute and a 6 wheel truck come around to my place, even though I have a trailer and could've taken the stuff to the dump - it is a service Auckland Council already offers to benefit the wider environment.

 

Front footing it to clear old shitters out of bays, stop them washing up on Tamaki Dr every big Nor Easter, and protect the environment from sunken wrecks. Improve visual amenity, make moorings available to those who want to use them, reduce damage to other mooring users when they break free etc etc.

 

But remember, Council never applies logic to anything it does...

 

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/380743/auckland-s-abandoned-boats-one-pulled-from-the-water-every-week

[Frank 157]

How about the boat owner applying some self logic  before we blame the council ? why should they inherit the problem and then pass the cost on to the rate payers.

 

Boat owner self -logic checklist

 

1. Maintain the boat in a seaworthy state

2. Service the mooring

3. Keep the vessel insured

4. When selling it meet the market

5. Be realistic about your ability to do all of the above, financially, Physically and mentally, don't do the maritime equivalent of fly-tipping and simply walk away.

[Fish 0]

Here is a question,

If your boat's insurance has lapsed, where can you haul out?

 

Particularly for the boats on moorings scenario, where you aren't required to have insurance, and / or the scenario where the owner suffers ill health / cancer etc, once the boat is on the mooring and the insurance has lapsed, it must be just about impossible to do anything with it / take it anywhere so that it can be fixed / maintained etc.

 

Almost all new insurance requires a survey (esp for older boats, the types that use moorings). If the boat needs work to pass a survey, or you can't actually get it surveyed cause you can't haul out anywhere, what do you do?

 

Assuming you want to maintain your boat but due to life have let things get away on you, what can you do? Sounds like a Catch 22

[Crazyhorse 47]

There's one Stewart thats so gone in Mangonui that if it was a horse you'd have to shoot it. Has grass happily growing on it but it also has a letter from NRC taped to the wash boards. Couldn't read it from the dinghy but a good guess it will be one of those 21 day remove it or.... The skin fittings when they pop, will cost the owner a LOT more than towing it one way behind Grt Barrier (Nice idea by the way).

[Fish 0]

I think many dieing shitters are on marinas as getting rid of them is both hard and expensive.

 

So my initial post was about making it easier to get rid of dieing shitters.

In this context, it would free up space in marina's, which would be positive for other marina users, and possibly have an impact on the demand / supply price setting for marina berths.

 

Now, who owns most of the marina's in Auckland? Would Council implement a policy (making it easier to get rid of shitters) that may reduce demand for marina berths and therefore revenue to Council?

[Fish 0]

The council implement policies to make things easier. WTF?? have you suffered a concussion recently?

I am responsible for maintaining a boat in Auckland, so obviously I have been banging my head against a brick wall for a while now. I believe the medical specialist do refer to the long term effects of that as concussion...

 

Seriously though, back to the original thread question. If AT deal with all the abondoned boats anyway, why wait for them to become derelict? Why let them endanger the environment, become an eyesore and a laibility to others around it, when the problem of old boats could be dealt with far more efficiently.

Acknowledging Frank's point on personal responsibility, its getting harder and harder to do everything properly / compliantly when maintaining a boat that is in good condition in Auckland. Once its been let go, its damn near impossible to deal with.

 

Sinking it is by far the easiest option. A lot of people wont be comfortable doing that, both from a legal or environmental point of view. But I can't see any other option.

I believe basic costs for salvaging a wreck is $10k (and probably go up from there). Surely it is cheaper to remove derelict boats before they're a wreck?

[Elenya 33]

As A harbourmaster I have disposed of many vessels over the years both large and small. The MTA allows council to recover costs of disposal from the sale of the vessel and/or the owner. This is not generally practicable as vessels have little value, cost of removing parts to sell is high and the owners often have no money.

 

Whilst we all see no reason the rate payer should pick up the tab it is a fact that it is often the case. An amnesty period is actually quite sensible and allows combining costs and process.

 

In general we use a contractor who removes mast, keel and any bulk metals and then crushes remainder and takes to tip as hazardous waste. We remove oils prior to this. An average cost for a 40 foot is 15 to 20k all up.

 

We have sold some vessels but only one has not come back to us in the longer term.

 

Boats are generally plywood or old carvel vessels and in very poor condition.

[khayyam 68]

Very informative Elenya. Thanks.

 

There are a lot of boats whose market value is well below their cost to scrap, then.

[Frank 157]

There's one Stewart thats so gone in Mangonui that if it was a horse you'd have to shoot it. Has grass happily growing on it but it also has a letter from NRC taped to the wash boards. Couldn't read it from the dinghy but a good guess it will be one of those 21 day remove it or.... The skin fittings when they pop, will cost the owner a LOT more than towing it one way behind Grt Barrier (Nice idea by the way).

Common guys, towing it behind the the Barrier and sinking it ? do the right thing and scrap it properly ,otherwise we are no better than all the other environmental cowboys. This is the 21st century not the 19th a fiberglass boat wont rot or rust away.

[ScottiE 174]

In general we use a contractor who removes mast, keel and any bulk metals and then crushes remainder and takes to tip as hazardous waste. We remove oils prior to this. An average cost for a 40 foot is 15 to 20k all up.

That is eye watering but conceivable. Surely all vessels in marinas now have even 3rd party Insurance to moor - I thought marinas were very strict on this now. I’m not a fan particularly but it would seem to me that AC for example should require all vessels to be 3rd party insured when ground rent is due, as a way of partially protecting against this sort of cost.

 

Unfortunately the council is forced to use a contractor to scrap a vessel whereas the responsible and charitable thing to do is take responsibility for your own vessel. Have third part insurance, get some mates together one day and scrap it into a bin properly for quite a bit less than what the council has to fork out.

[Beccara 25]

Up north they are, Whangarei and Tutukaka I know first hand want proof of renewal 1 month prior to expiry otherwise please leave, I've heard the same for Opua atleast

[SloopJohnB 323]

Simple

 

 

 

 

 

We need a maritime Crusher Collins for those jetskis.

 

[twisty 176]

I have been told about a company in the Netherlands that cuts GRP boats into strips, puts it in some form of resin and makes them into sheet piling. With 6000km of canals in the Netherlands there is a requirement for a S@#t load of sheet piling.

[cj! 19]

Does third party insurance cover abandonment?

[khayyam 68]

seems extremely unlikely that abandoned boats have current insurance

[Crazyhorse 47]

Fair enough. The NZ Government dumps their unwanted ships at sea!

[SloopJohnB 323]

Someone’s taking the piss at the ratepayers expense

 

Never, how dare they.

[Fish 0]

I would love to see a clear and honest breakdown of the 15-20k invoice for disposing of an unwanted boat. Half an hour on a 14t digger would see a 40ft boat fit on a tandem trailer. Same digger could remove the engine in about 30 seconds. I can dry hire a14t digger for $50/hr.

 

Someone’s taking the piss at the ratepayers expense

None of you guys are factoring in the cost per kg to dump contaminated or hazardous material. Fairly sure Hampton Downs is the only landfill to accept this sort of material, so add haulage to that. Not to mention retrieving the boat from its (abandoned) mooring, and finding a haul out facility that will remove it from the water without insurance (I'm assuming the Council need to cover that liability...)

 

Even the scenario of breaking a boat down and putting it in a skip one weekend with a bunch of mates doesn't even consider about 3/4s of the costs involved. No one is going to strip the hull back bare, so the whole thing needs to be treated as contaminated at the least ($$$$)

 

You'll have to get the bilge spotless (free of all oil, grease and spilt diesel) too

Guess the lead keel might be worth chopping off and taking to a scrap dealer - again, not sure what the requirements are about removing all that poisonous and highly toxic (as a dust) paint on the keel before claiming the lead value.

 

This is before considering such things as Council overheads (i.e. H&S plan, RMA checks, archeological checks (it might be a really old boat...) and the rest.

 

Seriously, there is a fundamental problem with how to dispose of an old boat. Even if you are capable and willing, it would be a mine field. If you are elderly, just had a leg chopped off, battling cancer, or lost your job and life savings in some sort of GFC / '87 crash, well, f*ck it, just leave it for the Council to sort (hence why an amenisty makes sense and reduces overall cost).

 

I think there is a lot to be said for cleaning it properly and sinking it. As KM has pointed out, if done properly / well, it can have some environmental benefits. If done poorly, it can be a major issue. Worst case, if you are sh*t hopeless, you can leave the must upright but just below the surface for a nice hazard to navigation. 

[Elenya 33]

The legislative powers only allow disposal of abandoned/derelict vessels and wrecks that are a navigation safety hazard. The RMA does have powers for stuff outside of this too but the boat has to be doing something wrong first. Think of a dinghy or Hartley 16 rotting on a beach and only awash on king tides, not really a nav safety hazard and is there a law to say you can’t leave a dinghy on a beach? Gets very difficult sometimes.

 

Insurance will not usually cover abandonment and who abandons a boat and keeps it insured? Generally by the time it gets in a bad shape owner is well gone.

 

Would be great if everyone was responsible though

[Crazyhorse 47]

Expand this to disused moorings. Now where to go in a southerly in Whangarei Harbour? Forget it, as all the best locations are littered with moorings, its something like a mine field! Pickup floats so covered in weed they only pop up on slack tide. Then there is the abandoned "I'll get around to it soon" hulks rotting away. Eventually we found a dubious spot to anchor now in Houhora down from HH5 marker. Every spot that has deep water and swing room in a narrow channel has mooring floats in it and boats. 5 to 1 scope in 5m puts us minimum 25m from moorings that are 20m apart!!!