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How to Fix the Hauraki Gulf

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13 minutes ago, Wayne-o said:

the edit to the second one?  I put the wrong link in the first time, only edit was the correct link.  doing two things at once.  

Did you read the report?

no I thought maybe you'd turned over a new leaf and would start editing your posts incase you "thought it risked seeming rude". No matter.

55 minutes ago, Wayne-o said:

You'd best read no COVID news Scottie - magazines and news outlets are breaching your professional standards rampantly, publishing graphs without footnoting the source. 

This is pretty normal journalism where the data is of the well-publicised official and settled kind.  Googling something like "state of the hauraki gulf 2020" will get you plenty about this report: https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/about-auckland-council/how-auckland-council-works/harbour-forums/docsstateofgulf/state-gulf-full-report.pdf which is in the same category.

This comprehensive unrebutted report was well covered when it came out.  Perhaps the author just assumed that anybody in NZ who cared at all about the state of the gulf might know this and that he's not writing for the totally uninformed.  

If you know of any credible science that undermines the above, I'd be interested to see it.    

I try ensure that what I do read viz most things do have some semblence of referencing. If not then I don't read. 

Thanks for the link - was aware of that report but haven't a chance to read it thoroughly yet.  These council reports are often problematic in their presentation - they're typically agenda driven rather than objective.  I've have previously found a very significant error in a report regarding the Tamaki River.  When I queried the report authors, the scientific study author and the peer reviewer regarding this, the response was to pull the scientific study reports from public circulation but not the final report.  I demonstrated the same at a govt. select committe hearing and got fobbed off.  The entity I was appearing against took me aside and went through my data, was relieved at what I had found (it was in their favour ultimately), thanked me for my "care" (which is all I'll say regarding your comment) and attention to detail.  So you will please forgive me for being sceptical.  But to suggest this report is "unrebutted" is hilarious - it's only been in public circulation for 8 weeks and the source scientific reports are probably not yet even released for public review.  

As for your understanding of normal journalism - sorry but I just don't agree.  A quick purusal through the report in your link illustrates that NZGeo lifted graphs directly out of that report with no acknowledgement.  A quick google, as you suggest, and I found this https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12310199 , which also lifted the same graph as replicated below.





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Scottie, 2 things:

1.  It's an opinion piece, not a scientific paper.

2. It is basically lifted from NZ Geo magazine, so there may well be references in the mag that didn't get shown on the interweb thingy.


I think we will all have to confront many issues like this over the coming years.  Hopefully we can do it with the same constructive attitude we, as Kiwis, are famous for.  Rather than how yacht handicaps are discussed.

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Yup. You can either obsess with the small details and pick holes in other folks efforts... or step back and see the bigger picture. 

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On 3/05/2020 at 1:16 PM, marinheiro said:

The fishing industry has both bases covered, on the one side they have Winston in their pocket and on the other hand National

 president Peter Goodfellow's family is the major shareholder in  Sanfords

Goodfellow had a major sell off his shares last year just to Japanese company



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4 hours ago, harrytom said:

Goodfellow had a major sell off his shares last year just to Japanese company

That was back in 2016, when the family trust controlled Amalgamated Dairies owned 33% of Sanfords. It would appear the Goodfellows continued to sell down their shareholdings both from Amalgamated Dairies and Peter and Bruce Goodfellow's Avalon investments, however according to the 2019 Annual report (and https://www.marketscreener.com/SANFORD-LIMITED-6491409/company/), Amalgamated Dairies is still the largest shareholder with 11.98% of shares and Avalon holds 3.74%. Both Peter and Bruce are on Sanford's board.

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2 hours ago, harrytom said:

He did a major sell off last year but little information about it.No longer major shareholder.

Last big sell down by Amalgamated Dairies was August 2019 which reduced their holdings to the current 11.9% shown on the Marketscreener link, none since


Reading here https://www.nzx.com/companies/SAN/analysis, it is of note that they have to keep foreign shareholding below an aggregate of ~22.5% to avoid issues with their quota holdings.

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The gulf is fixable.

Those who say

they do not fish but buy it,Think again.

Trawlers drag a net along the bottom and destroy all fauna,at the end of the net is a cod 4" diamond mesh which allows undersize fish to escape but as net fills up the mesh closes so no fish escapes.Once onboard undersize dumped as per the law.Those bruised ,dumped.Who wants bruised fish??

There are 2 types of fisherman,those with quota those with out who fish on contract.The contractors catch according to what holder wants(generally overseas investor)wrong size/species contractor dumps as no money in it.  Those who hold quota fish when right size/species is around.

Longliners are our friends/may lay 3000 hooks but once set ,start the retrieval and release unwanted fish alive in most cases.fish is treated with care,not thrown in to hold but placed on ice.

Now our kelp beds have gone and the kina have taken over to over fishing,the kelp provided a haven for small fish

Yes maybe ban the taking of shellfish from local onshore beaches. Who remembers about 4 yrs ago a major scallop bed found off corromandel.wasnt reccs who destoyed it comm managed to destroy it in 2 seasons.

Recreational provide jobs/gst/ through fuel bait new purchases servicing etc we are a Billion Dollar industry.


Remember comms never paid a $ for quota,they were given it.The only money Govt recieves is between 20c to $1.20 per tonne a conservation fee.

The fish belong to the people. Reccs/customary first comms gets whats left.Shame this never made it to the Statuary books.


Council is responsible for water quality seabed/foreshore and fauna but lots of $$ required to challenge. May change now the green light has been given to BOP council

But mpi/fisheries to control stock.



Thirty odd years on and there is still little form of life,fish/kelp etc in the cable zone.Trawl marks still visible today.



Be careful of what you wish for.Who knows it maybe deemed yachts anchored in a bay as an environment eye sore(visual pollution)

Hope that gives a bit of insight to what is happening in our gulf.


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Stuart Nash came along waving the big stick about clamping down on dumping ,cameras,foreign ownership etc But I guess the big back handers pays more dividends??

Been reading about The Faroe Islands Fisheries. You lease the quota from govt and you can sell to markets ,direct of the boat etc you are not bound to sell to sanfords/talleys etc. Must use local labour.interesting read.



One small detail I forgot to mention about our commercial fleet.They didnt pay a brass rassoo for the quota.They got for free based on previous catch records.The only money the government gets (a part from normal taxes) is a token amount for conservation.And this can be anywhere from 20c to $1.20 per tonne. When quota is sold,it is sold amongst themselves and still money to government. 

I have no problem with deep sea trawling catching hoki/orange roughy.As proven again they have destroyed that fisherary as well.

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