Black Panther 1,692 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 56 minutes ago, Sabre said: The most worrying part of this whole situation for me is that some very experienced cruisers think that bowing down to unreasonable beauracracy is the best way to preserve sailors rights and access to the oceans. I would suggest that pissing off foreign bureaucracies is an effective way to get us all banned. In NZ knock yourself out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,284 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 If he is actually in on the high seas, then I've no issue with what hes doing. Others, including nations, may disagree. Territorial waters are a bit of a grey area. For a long time most nations accepted that territorial limits were 3NM, a long cannon shot. Then some nations "decided" that it should be 12NM incl the USA. NZ has a 200nm "EEZ", but you can transit that area. Its pretty hard for a single yacht to defy a nation - with a navy and or air force, if they are determined. They can stop you. You are vulnerable. You can't fight a military vessel. There are multiple areas in the world you are not allowed to go. If you are inside the 12m limit, then you are unlikely to get any help from your government. Its easy to sit here and say that should not be, but its how it is. I've been boarded by armed military, and threatened with prison, but eventually was allowed to leave, its not an ideal way to spend a day! When it comes to nations, it's better - and recommended - to abide by their rules and requirements, customs and beliefs. Its part of the experience. If you don't like it, move on, plenty of other places to go in the world. Nations don't have to let you in, by boat or by plane, walking, driving or whatever. They can and do decide not to allow yachts. Upsetting them can make this more likely. more info here https://share.america.gov/what-do-you-know-about-international-waters/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 So, how is he getting on? The NW passage normally opens in August or there abouts?, and can stay open for, what, about 6 weeks? Obviously all this climate change has made transits though there a load easier lately, but its still not something the average Joe can have a go at. And when you get to the other end, you have to beat down through the Berring Sea... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,284 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Looks like he is here - the purple one is a the only leisure vessel in the area... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marinheiro 359 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 32 minutes ago, Fish said: So, how is he getting on? The NW passage normally opens in August or there abouts?, and can stay open for, what, about 6 weeks? Obviously all this climate change has made transits though there a load easier lately, but its still not something the average Joe can have a go at. And when you get to the other end, you have to beat down through the Berring Sea... Pete was in Peel sound at the beginning of the week. Looking at Marine traffic you can see a pleasure boat transitting the Bellot Strait, I think this will be Kiwi Roa. IT beat me to it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AJ Oliver 155 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 One of the cruisers from our Club sailed across the international border into Canada a few weeks ago, attempting to enter the port of Leamington, Ontario. He was told quite brusquely that under no circumstances could he land, and further that he had to leave Canadian waters immediately. Two points: (1) Our sailor is very involved in politics, and really should have known better. The Canadian border has been closed to US boats for at least five months. We had a good laugh at the Bloke's expense. (2) It appears that the Canadians are not discriminating against the Kiwi sailor; rather, you are paying part of the price for the US' utter incompetence in handling the Corona-V. (3) Bonus Point !! Got to admire the gent - but he could be getting himself in some trouble. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla II 410 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Pete is caught between a Rocna and a hard place. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,692 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 https://news.oceancruisingclub.org/home/index/1386 Who thinks these guys should ignore the bureaucrats and sail to NZ. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
grantmc 59 Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 24 minutes ago, Black Panther said: https://news.oceancruisingclub.org/home/index/1386 Who thinks these guys should ignore the bureaucrats and sail to NZ. Suggest you start another thread. BUT ... In answer to your question, I think that ignoring the law and just sailing to NZ or Oz would have significant negative consequences. In Oz they'd just be regarded as wealthy 'boat people', their yachts confiscated and lengthy periods in one of the many Immigration camps until they could be repatriated. Here in NZ consequences wouldn't be much better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,692 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 I like it in this thread. Check the title of this thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Black Panther said: https://news.oceancruisingclub.org/home/index/1386 Who thinks these guys should ignore the bureaucrats and sail to NZ. Different circumstances, one example someone wants to transit a waterway near a country, the other, people want to enter that country and stay for an extended period. In the second example, how they get there is largely irrelevant in the eyes of immigration, and for all practical purposes, the issue is entry to the country, not that they sailed to that country. In the other example, you could put an arguement it is a freedom of navigation exercise. The only similarity is that both examples are on boats. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,692 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Disagree. In both examples sailors are disregarding the wishes of another country. And i still contend that doing so will have negative fallout for those who follow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin McCready 83 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Bureaucrats don't make laws. They interpret them and are subject to the courts. At least learn to vent your spleen appropriately. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chariot 244 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 17 minutes ago, Kevin McCready said: Bureaucrats don't make laws. They interpret them and are subject to the courts. At least learn to vent your spleen appropriately. They may not make laws but as with all laws, it is down to interpretation. You will find different bureaucrats have different interpretations which leeds to total confusion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aardvarkash10 1,065 Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 bureaucrats are a service branch to the government - the civil servant class. The people enforcing at the coalface are officials. Think: Minister of Police > Commissioner of Police > Police Officer /sidebar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
armchairadmiral 411 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Plus counselling and a welfare benefit! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aardvarkash10 1,065 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 ^Only if they are NZ citizens or residents and can show they have a specific need or meet the relevant criteria. You know, just to keep it real and not ZB-ish... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marinheiro 359 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 39 minutes ago, aardvarkash10 said: ^Only if they are NZ citizens or residents and can show they have a specific need or meet the relevant criteria. You know, just to keep it real and not ZB-ish... yeah like this guy who lied thru his teeth to get a visitors visa and now we are stuck with him https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122166500/iranian-writer-behrouz-boochani-granted-refugee-status-in-nz 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 14 minutes ago, marinheiro said: yeah like this guy who lied thru his teeth to get a visitors visa and now we are stuck with him https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122166500/iranian-writer-behrouz-boochani-granted-refugee-status-in-nz I don't know, anyone who can succeed after being detained for 6 years would appear to have a bit of tenacity, and may well be an asset to the country. Perhaps he could teach tenacity at schools, would be a hell of a good lesson in how you have to make sacrifices and preserver to achieve a goal. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla II 410 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 24 minutes ago, marinheiro said: yeah like this guy who lied thru his teeth to get a visitors visa and now we are stuck with him https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122166500/iranian-writer-behrouz-boochani-granted-refugee-status-in-nz What a complete and utter falsehood. Behrouz was invited to come here for a writers festival and made a fully legal and compliant application for refugee status after enduring six years of our Aussie neighbours abominable inhumane refugee policies. Hang your head in shame with Armchair where’s your humanity. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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