Damn the Rules, Rocna Inventor doing the NW Passage

[Kevin McCready 83]

Shame that some people still don't want to respect the law. This thread has come in a nice circle. People who think Smith should break the law seem to the same people who don't understand that NZ has signed up, and good on us, to the 1951 UN Convention on Refugees.

[marinheiro 359]

35 minutes ago, Priscilla II said:

What a complete and utter falsehood.

Behrouz was invited to come here for a writers festival and made a fully legal and compliant application for refugee status after enduring six years of our Aussie neighbours abominable inhumane refugee policies.

Hang your head in shame with Armchair where’s your humanity.

He tried to queue jump the Australian immigration process. 

he came to NZ on a 1 month visitors visa, having represented that he had been accepted for resettlement in USA. Obviously had no intention of leaving NZ, overstayed with the help of his Green friend and the government being selective about enforcing the law. 

Suggest you start a thread in Small talk if you want to continue this discussion

[aardvarkash10 1,065]

^and yet, no outcry from any other party in the house.  

Its an irrelevance.  We have a quota - and its miserly (ironically even by comparison to our Tasman neighbours).  Any accepted refugee displaces another off the list, so its a zero-sum game.  Personally, I'm comfortable that we have taken an educated and published author and film-maker who has been employed here from the day he had legal ability to be in paid employment.

 

[Priscilla II 410]

1 hour ago, Knot Me... maybe said:

Actually it's not. He was invited here for the festival, that is correct. When he got here there was a wee whoha about it at which time he specifically said 'I'm here for the festival then leaving as per my visitors visa'. His sponsor, the Greens, swore black and blue he was he for the festival only and it was not an attempt to sneak in the back door or short cut any procress.

At the time a LOT of people called that bullshit, the greens are full of sh*t and lieing, most wise money said Gloria Wokie the green women was full of it just like writer dude. The greens and their pastys plus the dude deigned that vehemently.

Yet here we are and so is he.

The humanity or whatever aside, the greens lied, he lied and now NZ is stuck with him for better or worse.

What the Fark are you on next time you are seeking refugee status for being severely disconnected to reality I wish you all the best.

KM your endless bombastic belligerent bullshit really has dived to the pearly depths of idiocy.

[Priscilla II 410]

Going to bang on.

EDITED BY MODERATOR, CONTENT REMOVED

Walk a yard in this mans life come back to us and report.

[Clipper 358]

On 30/08/2020 at 9:57 PM, Priscilla II said:

 

I'm perhaps too simple to understand these big words, but did you say that KM does not contribute to NZ society?

[grantmc 59]

Just thought that to try and keep the thread on track, and perhaps add a little sanity, here's a reminder of the Kiwis who've completed a successful NW passage:
2000    Evohe (25m yacht)    Stephen Kafka
2009    Tyhina (10.4m yacht)    Peter Elliot
2010    Astral Express (12.5m yacht)    Graeme Kendall single handed over two seasons
2011    Kotuku (12m yacht)    Ian Douglass
2012    Tokimata (13m yacht)    Peter Garden
2017    Larissa (13.7m cutter)    Mark Domney
2017    Tiama (15.2m skoop)    Hank Haazen

Just to add Australia have had only 6 successes including 3 by Roger Wallis (Philos in 2012 and again 2014, then in 2017 on Abel Tasman).

Thus it's a very select group that Pete Evans will soon join.
In total 123 yachts have made a successful transit, the first of course was the Norweigian 21m yacht Gjøa captained by Roald Amundsen in 1903.  
About 30 of these had to winter over and so took two seasons.

The journey is arduous and fraught with danger. And the trip has brought many a dream to a cold and premature end.
I can appreciate the frustration that Pete Evans will have experienced, no doubt that included all manner of preparation and planning; not to ignore considerable expense.
We can agree here on this forum, I hope, to at least all wish him a safe and successful voyage.

[wheels 543]

Does anyone know enough about what the NW passage is like this time of the year?? Will it be clear Ocean, or is it still mostly ice with the chance of a path through it or something like that?

[Fish 0]

9 hours ago, Priscilla II said:

Going to bang on.

This team of five million that you KM show little or any constructive contribution to apart from your belated renaissance  into local body politics which you endlessly self glow with an inflated incandescent fervour that bears little of substance to reality when you example one refugee as you have done.

Walk a yard in this mans life come back to us and report.

Just to keep the sub-thread of this thread going, I've reported that to the moderator. That's an out and out personal attack, of which there is no place for around here.

And more to the point, what has this refugee sh*t got to do with sailing or the North West passage? Can you ladies take your hand bags down to smalltalk or even better the political talk sub section and have your cat fight down there?

[Fish 0]

13 minutes ago, Tamure said:

Calm down fish and how about you stop? We dont need hall monitors to solve problems. That is not a personal attack he'll take it as a bloody compliment  

 

Facepalm. Just facepalm.

Wheels, based on Graeme Kendal's book, I'd expect some areas of clear water, but the substantial chance of lumpy bits (brash ice?) or the chance of getting iced in if you don't get through fast enough. It all depends on the weather systems at the time. Wind blows one way, you are fine, wind blows the other, and your channel can fill with ice overnight.

[grantmc 59]

42 minutes ago, wheels said:

Does anyone know enough about what the NW passage is like this time of the year?? Will it be clear Ocean, or is it still mostly ice with the chance of a path through it or something like that?

Vicariously, and from reading/watching, there's never a time when it's clear of ice during the July-Sept cruising season. The issue is the amount of ice and it's interaction with the wind. All sailors take advice and rely on forecasts form the Canadian Ice Service. 

[marinheiro 359]

36 minutes ago, grantmc said:

Vicariously, and from reading/watching, there's never a time when it's clear of ice during the July-Sept cruising season. The issue is the amount of ice and it's interaction with the wind. All sailors take advice and rely on forecasts form the Canadian Ice Service. 

The challenge is always getting through Peel Sound with the risk of the wind driving ice down from the north.

[Adrianp 124]

2 hours ago, grantmc said:

Just thought that to try and keep the thread on track, and perhaps add a little sanity, here's a reminder of the Kiwis who've completed a successful NW passage:
2000    Evohe (25m yacht)    Stephen Kafka
2009    Tyhina (10.4m yacht)    Peter Elliot
2010    Astral Express (12.5m yacht)    Graeme Kendall single handed over two seasons
2011    Kotuku (12m yacht)    Ian Douglass
2012    Tokimata (13m yacht)    Peter Garden
2017    Larissa (13.7m cutter)    Mark Domney
2017    Tiama (15.2m skoop)    Hank Haazen

Just to add Australia have had only 6 successes including 3 by Roger Wallis (Philos in 2012 and again 2014, then in 2017 on Abel Tasman).

Thus it's a very select group that Pete Evans will soon join.
In total 123 yachts have made a successful transit, the first of course was the Norweigian 21m yacht Gjøa captained by Roald Amundsen in 1903.  
About 30 of these had to winter over and so took two seasons.

The journey is arduous and fraught with danger. And the trip has brought many a dream to a cold and premature end.
I can appreciate the frustration that Pete Evans will have experienced, no doubt that included all manner of preparation and planning; not to ignore considerable expense.
We can agree here on this forum, I hope, to at least all wish him a safe and successful voyage.

This 2h video of a bunch of Kiwis doing the transit is a good Lockdown watch! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ80U5VZ5zM&t=1912s

Whats the the Histrory of this boat? It looks like a sistership to the Sylfia of the Expedition Drenched boat 

 

 

[grantmc 59]

58 minutes ago, Adrianp said:

This 2h video of a bunch of Kiwis doing the transit is a good Lockdown watch! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ80U5VZ5zM&t=1912s
Whats the the History of this boat? It looks like a sistership to the Sylfia of the Expedition Drenched boat.

I understand she was originally built in Whangarei. Sistership? don't know.
She did the Northwest Passage in 2008 with skipper Juan Ribos under Spanish flag.
And it is that journey that's featured in the Youtube video.

These days she is a NZ registered yacht and for the last few years she's been sailing around Western Europe.

[wheels 543]

On 30/08/2020 at 7:40 PM, Knot Me... maybe said:

Actually it's not. He was invited here for the festival, that is correct. When he got here there was a wee whoha about it at which time he specifically said 'I'm here for the festival then leaving as per my visitors visa'. His sponsor, the Greens, swore black and blue he was he for the festival only and it was not an attempt to sneak in the back door or short cut any procress.

At the time a LOT of people called that bullshit, the greens are full of sh*t and lieing, most wise money said Gloria Wokie the green women was full of it just like writer dude. The greens and their pastys plus the dude deigned that vehemently.

Yet here we are and so is he.

The humanity or whatever aside, the greens lied, he lied and now NZ is stuck with him for better or worse.

 

On 30/08/2020 at 9:36 PM, Priscilla II said:

What the Fark are you on next time you are seeking refugee status for being severely disconnected to reality I wish you all the best.

KM your endless bombastic belligerent bullshit really has dived to the pearly depths of idiocy.

Firstly, that is a bit harsh Prascilla. KM is darn close to being spot on. Also, he did not make any statement opposing the guy becoming a refugee here, but he was alluding to the process and errr, lets call it "creativeness" of those in the background involved in getting him refugee status here. The laws do not work this way and this actually makes it unfair for those waiting on seeking refugee status. This guy is no more special than anyone else in those Refugee camps waiting.

[Fish 0]

2 hours ago, Tamure said:

Actually the problem is that he DID make a comment, just like you are and the Marin guy that started plus those that support it by downvoting anyone calling it out. There is a place for this toxic posturing, its called small talk. How about all the political commentators, conspiracy theorists, ZB aficionados et al politely retire to their own section and duke it out there. Its always the same players, (and their enablers) the same opinions and the same nasty culture and result no matter the subject. In this case the discussion was about a very experienced NZ yachtie, sailing through waters controlled by another country under covid restrictions when you lot dropped in with your ugly little bunfight.

Come now Tamure, we don't need hall monitors and all

But other than that, concerningly, I actually agree with you.

[Island Time 1,284]

And in this case I've been in two minds as what to do about it. I agree with Priscilla's post, but it is a personal attack I guess, and KM's response is also a breach of the rules. I'll go back and remove them both I guess.

[CarpeDiem 510]

3 hours ago, Tamure said:

TBH, I dont really know what to say on here about him as I am a bit of a rebel about govt overreach but if some cruiser announces their intention to land on the one of the NZ's offshore sanctuary  Islands Im pretty sure we would all be jumping up and down. 

This is kind of comparing apples and oranges. The NW passage is not internationally recognised as Canadian internal waters and is not a land mass. NZ sanctuary islands are not a waterway connecting two regions and are an isolated land mass that provide no access to any other land mass.

A better analogy might be, would NZers be jumping up and down because a ship wanted to transit the Cook Strait on it's way from South America to Australia without permits/permission.  And even that's not great because the Cook Strait is recognised as NZ terrority. 

Would the boating community be upset, if Turkey decided, that due to Covid restrictions, the right of innocent passage no longer applied to the Bosporus Strait? (also not a good analogy because it has been officially recognised). 

To help know "what to say" about Pete Smith and this transit, you have to form an educated opinion about Canada's legal claim to the NW passage and decide if the right to innocent passage does or does not apply to him. 

Legal Article: The Northwest Passage - What is its status under the international law of the sea?

[Kevin McCready 83]

To add to Tamure's excellent post it's worth recalling that the notion that there is an orderly system which refugees MUST follow when applying is another part of the nasty rightwing meme factory. Wheels promoted the notion in his post and I hope it was just an error in understanding on his behalf and not a part of his belief system. These are important matters and it's essential that we don't make such fundamental errors in discussing them and in treating people humanely and treating them in accordance with our legal obligations. NZ is a tiny island stuck at the far end of the world; if we are to survive and prosper we need to promote a rules-based system of international law in cooperation with other like-minded polities, not tear it down according to the political whim of the day.

[2flit 52]

1 hour ago, Tamure said:

.........

1. His intention to pass through without making landfall

 

Yes, but  I think he is technically making a 'Landfall' if he is anchoring on Canadian soil.  At the CAN/US  border along the strait of Juan de Fuca, and in the Rosario Strait... I believe that in normal (non-Covid) times that an American can transit, but is not allowed to lay anchor.    The act of putting down an anchor has been regarded by other countries (that we have had to enter) as being illegal until a formal entry is conducted. 

I might tend to view this differently if he was making a non-stop passage, but because I have read that he is anchoring and if true, the guy is violating Canadian Law.

This is also a big deal for Canada because this will become a passage for oil tankers thru a pristine Canadian wilderness area. Just think about what has happened this August with the oil tanker running aground in Mauritius do to operator error and a desire to get closer to land for the crew to use their cell phones!