Price for Davidson 28 1977

[John Doe 0]

I am an inexperienced sailor and would like to buy a yacht for my family with two children. Unfortunately, the offer is not that big and the possibility of finding a yacht with a mooring is even smaller.

Now I have come across a yacht that I have seen and judged by more experienced sailors to be in very good condition. In turn, a dealer said that a Davidson 28 with a wooden top is of almost no value, even if it has a newer engine in it. What do you recommend me to bid here? Any feedback is very welcome.

She's not on TM yet, but here some data:

• GRP hull, ply/glass deck and cabin (re-glassed by Dickson Marine 2008).
• New top stripe and cockpit repaint (Toplac 2019).
• Underwater area sanded and antifouled (Altex Pettit Hydrocoat Aug. 2019). Large double V berth forward. Main cabin table folds down to a double. 2 x large quarter berths. Saloon headroom of over 6ft
• New fully edged quality carpet throughout 2016.
• 21hp Nanni 3 cylinder diesel 2013
• 3 blade feathering Kiwi Prop 2013. Parker / Raycor Primary filter unit (NEW 2017) Two 70 litre water tanks with charcoal filters. 60l aluminium diesel tank – New 2013 Electric toilet and holding tank
• Electric anchor winch
• Fully battened Dacron mainsail with lazy jacks 2013.
• Mylar radial cut furling genoa 2013 plus storm jib.
• All headsails fit the Furlex self furler.
• Sheets and all running rigging replaced 2013.
• Spectra halyards 2013.
• Spinnaker with all new equipment including Spectra sheets. Jockey pole.
• Single speed jib-sheet winches and cabin-top mounted halyard winches.
• All lines led aft to cockpit for safety and short-handed sailing.
• Raymarine log (speedo). Compass. Autopilot. Depth Sounder
• Lowrance HDS-7 sonar/GPS Chart Plotter (Navonics platinum NZ Charts 2019).
• 1 Deep cycle house battery. 1 starting battery New 2020.
• Solar panel & regulator.
• VHF radio with NEW masthead aerial and wiring (2016).
• 2.3m inflatable (2009) with 2 HP Yamaha outboard (2009)
• Spray dodger, Lee cloths, Sail cover & Bimini canvas (NEW Dec. 2017)
• Manson Supreme and Danforth anchors (NEW chain 2017, warp 2016).
• New teak anchor sprit 2015.

• Mahogany handrails 2015.
• Laminated tiller with extension 2015.
• SS rigging (NEW forward lowers 2016) replaces baby stay.
• New boom gooseneck 2015.
• MK2 Rudder.
• Boathook.
• Fenders
• Teak swim platform with stainless fold down telescopic ladder. New switch panel 2015.
• Lifejackets, lifebuoy, flares (OOD). Fire extinguisher (NEW 2017). Galley chattels (Plates, Cutlery, pots and pans etc)
• Pressurised water system.
• 2 burner LPG gimballed stove with grill (2009)
• LPG Gas bottle
• Large Insulated ice box

[Cantab 341]

1. When I started looking at yachts and had interactions with a few dealers I quickly formed the opinion that they made used car salesmen look like saints. Do not take their word as gospel on anything, there is an element of truth in what he is sailing but I would trust the advice of the experienced sailor at your local yacht club over a dealer any day.

2. That boat has had a sh*t load of money spent, probably very well maintained. $30 to $50 K depending how they went about it on some of the bigger items. That doesn't make much difference to value when it comes to sale price, just makes it easier to sell. An average condition D8 with ply decks would be lucky to make $10K.

3. Get it surveyed for structural issues, if its OK and the price is right ...

4. They are a good boat to start out with for a small family.

5. There are continual maintenance needs and costs but if some of the usual big ones have all ready been done it helps a lot.

 

[John B 100]

The dealer is talking rubbish. D28 is a great boat, all the earlier boats had timber tops.

Random fact :Ronaki was the boat used to take the cabin mould off.

[John B 100]

Yes those are much better responses from BOI GUY and Tamure, it just gets my goat this dealer making a generalisation like that. The list of historical work and fit out looks good. Better than just good really. 

[Jon 327]

The dearest boat is usually the cheapest in the long run.

If you spend 10k over the odds on a good boat all you are doing is paying up front for less hassles down the track.

Just get it surveyed as long as the ply has been looked after which will show up in the survey, plenty of glass of that age that is stuffed and cutting and scarfing in new isn’t that hard however delaminates spongy glass may not be easily fixed

Brokers doesn’t want you to buy a cheap boat as it not worth his time to do the deal, just as much work for him in a 10k sale as a 100k sale

[Fogg 427]

Boat maintenance roughly falls into 2 categories:

1. The essentials / fundamentals eg rig, structure, through-hull fittings, mission-critical systems like rudder engine anchoring etc

2. The extras eg running rigging, electrics, electronics, all the safety kit and all the nice to haves

#1 stuff makes the boat safe to use.

#2 stuff makes it nice to use - and this is the stuff a young family will mostly notice and appreciate.

From the description above it sounds like lots of the #2 has been recently done making it ready to step on and go. Which means your next few years maintenance budget will probably not need to go on replacing batteries and instruments and sails but instead on preserving the structural stuff.

A boat that presents well with lots of #2 stuff done well is usually indicative that the essential structural #1 has also been taken care of by a conscientious owner. BUT not always! In fact it can can sometimes be used as a smokescreen to hide neglected or problematic structural areas - I’ve seen a few boats like this over the years.

So in short, absolutely get the best survey you can to ensure no structural issues. And even if the boat presents well plan to spend ~10% purchase price on annual maintenance however good it looks today - it’s an approximate figure but after 30yrs of owning many different boats it’s a surprisingly reliable rule of thumb over a few years of ownership.

[John Doe 0]

1 hour ago, Fogg said:

Boat maintenance roughly falls into 2 categories:

1. The essentials / fundamentals eg rig, structure, through-hull fittings, mission-critical systems like rudder engine anchoring etc

2. The extras eg running rigging, electrics, electronics, all the safety kit and all the nice to haves

#1 stuff makes the boat safe to use.

#2 stuff makes it nice to use - and this is the stuff a young family will mostly notice and appreciate.

From the description above it sounds like lots of the #2 has been recently done making it ready to step on and go. Which means your next few years maintenance budget will probably not need to go on replacing batteries and instruments and sails but instead on preserving the structural stuff.

A boat that presents well with lots of #2 stuff done well is usually indicative that the essential structural #1 has also been taken care of by a conscientious owner. BUT not always! In fact it can can sometimes be used as a smokescreen to hide neglected or problematic structural areas - I’ve seen a few boats like this over the years.

So in short, absolutely get the best survey you can to ensure no structural issues. And even if the boat presents well plan to spend ~10% purchase price on annual maintenance however good it looks today - it’s an approximate figure but after 30yrs of owning many different boats it’s a surprisingly reliable rule of thumb over a few years of ownership.

Thank you for the very useful information. Do you think 25k is appropriate?

[John Doe 0]

1 hour ago, Jon said:

The dearest boat is usually the cheapest in the long run.

If you spend 10k over the odds on a good boat all you are doing is paying up front for less hassles down the track.

Just get it surveyed as long as the ply has been looked after which will show up in the survey, plenty of glass of that age that is stuffed and cutting and scarfing in new isn’t that hard however delaminates spongy glass may not be easily fixed

Brokers doesn’t want you to buy a cheap boat as it not worth his time to do the deal, just as much work for him in a 10k sale as a 100k sale

Thank you very much, that will help me! Do you think 25k is okay?

[marinheiro 339]

1 hour ago, John Doe said:

Thank you very much, that will help me! Do you think 25k is okay?

If you take this one as benchmark (old engine and all) and likely to sell for a bit less than asking

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/listing/2851675438?bof=uUxL3YV8

I would suggest not much more than $20k for the boat you are interested, subject to survey/sea trial and no identified major defects 

[vic008 17]

I tell them I agree it is worth more but the max I can raise is $20,000. The market is flooded with cheap boats.(32' ply Spencer just passed at $5000)

[John Doe 0]

3 hours ago, Fogg said:

Boat maintenance roughly falls into 2 categories:

1. The essentials / fundamentals eg rig, structure, through-hull fittings, mission-critical systems like rudder engine anchoring etc

2. The extras eg running rigging, electrics, electronics, all the safety kit and all the nice to haves

#1 stuff makes the boat safe to use.

#2 stuff makes it nice to use - and this is the stuff a young family will mostly notice and appreciate.

From the description above it sounds like lots of the #2 has been recently done making it ready to step on and go. Which means your next few years maintenance budget will probably not need to go on replacing batteries and instruments and sails but instead on preserving the structural stuff.

A boat that presents well with lots of #2 stuff done well is usually indicative that the essential structural #1 has also been taken care of by a conscientious owner. BUT not always! In fact it can can sometimes be used as a smokescreen to hide neglected or problematic structural areas - I’ve seen a few boats like this over the years.

So in short, absolutely get the best survey you can to ensure no structural issues. And even if the boat presents well plan to spend ~10% purchase price on annual maintenance however good it looks today - it’s an approximate figure but after 30yrs of owning many different boats it’s a surprisingly reliable rule of thumb over a few years of ownership.

 

We just discussed while having lunch based on your feedback - that makes sense | thanks a lot! Do you think 25k are okay?

[aardvarkash10 846]

We paid $14k for a 10m ply keeler at the start of lockdown with the view that international travel was stuffed for at least two years, maybe longer.

The purchase represented about the cost of our annual overseas snowboarding trip, so if we give the yacht away in three years, including mooring and operating costs it will have been cheaper than our usual annual non-lockdown summer holiday options.

If you are REALLY tight for budget, consider a 1/2 or 1/4 share option.  Otherwise, do what we did - work out the annualised cost and make your justificaiton.

[Fogg 427]

6 hours ago, John Doe said:

Thank you for the very useful information. Do you think 25k is appropriate?

Given the other D28 (full GRP) is only asking $18k - which means probably sell for ~$15k ish - I’d say yours is worth $20k max. But I’d start offering $17.5k.

[Bad Kitty 217]

Get a survey. Also, get a survey.  

Or if you have someone you know who is VERY knowledgeable about this type of boat, then as a last resort, you could use them.

But I'd get a survey. 

[Bad Kitty 217]

But on a less grouchy note, boats can be expensive toys, but don't have to be. And if you & the family get into sailing and the time out on the water, it may be the best money you spend in your lifetime.

Sailing, fishing, making some great friends out on the water, discovering awesome places that the average non boating Kiwi never sees.

The yacht is the last thing I'd give up,  

[Elliot749 28]

Thirteen years ago I bought a D28, with friends as partners, it was $32k from memory, Yanmar , full GRP, great boat, three trips to Bay of Islands, very safe, capable family boat , with very young kids  on board 

We sold after 5 years use, got $25k I think. Replaced with 1020, which went from $70k to $52k after 5 years similar sailing use . So D28 dropped $7k over that time , 1020 dropped $18k same number of years . 

My advise, offer $17-19k, remember it’s easy to go “up” , but can’t go down so simply, Money talks, Cash SHOUTS ! 

As a former D28 owner, I really rate them  as safe fun family yachts , very capable

 

[Jon 327]

As stated above go in low, I’d start at 15k, (you make money when you buy not sell)

And get a survey, not unusual to negotiate down when a few small problems are found.

[armchairadmiral 411]

As Jon says buy the one that specs up and pay the extra.It'll end up a bargain and if you look after it you'll be able to sell it easier for the same reason.

[AJ Oliver 154]

18 minutes ago, armchairadmiral said:

As Jon says buy the one that specs up and pay the extra

What AA said. 

If the more pricey boat has sails that are much better, motor & winches & fittings better, little or no water intrusion . . 

And is in immediate sail-away condition as opposed to another that "needs a bit of work", 

it's easily worth $ 10K more. 

[Black Panther 1,413]

I spent most of my working life presenting low offers. What i observed was silly low offers were less effective than "reasonable but a bit light".

The silly offer would just piss the vendor off and make the rest of the negotiations much harder  . I found it better to start near where you want to end up. Then when you get a counter offer (won't happen if you start too low) say " I love your boat and would pay that if I could, but this is all I have".

But what would I know.