IRC ORC for Elliott 1050, Young 11 or Similar

[Cameron 74]

Has anyone had a Elliott 1050 IRC or ORC rated ? I'm trying to get a set of polars together and a copy of a cert would be a nice help. Young 11's or other boats of similar performance are also of interest

[Absolution 7]

I have an ORC cert for Fineline... i will email it it to you.

[El Toro 97]

I had an IRC one for the 10.5, I thnk I rolled it up and smoked it not long after opening the envelope.. was a joke.

Put me up with and above the 40s and Anticipation

[markm 30]

Won't help with polars, but FYI

 

Bee Bad 1.056, expect it to be a deal higher now

Clear Vision 1.061, close to traditional class config I think, maybe only a #2 headsail

Flying Circus 1.062

Flying Boat 1.064, fairly sure with #2 and frac kite only

Backchat 1.068, likewise I think a reduced sail config

Young Nicholson 1.079

Second Nature 1.089, I think with new keel but I doubt with the large kites

Forever Young 1.096, upgraded keel and I expect mh sails

Fineline 1.141, upgraded everything

 

PC, just think how much higher it'll be with a new keel. Not high enough of course, but higher.

[El Toro 97]

Again, thank you for your kinds words Mark!

 

I didnt see the point of racing a rating system some muppet in a windowless room in the UK invents for my boat, resulting in me carrying less sail area..esp since my best sail is my code 0! Why encourage slowing a boat down?

 

Needless to say, we entered one race, got accused of cheating (yes we were outside of the rules but not intentionally and I withdrew from the IRC sectopn as soon as i finished) and never raced it again.

 

You only need to see how many boats raced IRC in the last coastal to see where its heading.... nowhere.

 

Each to their own I suppose, so if people want to race it and have nationals, good on them and hope they have fun racing that way.. just dont think its setup to cater for Big Red Couch designed boats, thu will always only be a side system downunder

[Chill Pill 1]

Valium = 1.128.

 

Ouch!!

 

Agree with PC. Waste of time in NZ. I won't renew it.

[El Toro 97]

A gift Gary a gift... I'm 1.138 and thats pre keel and prod!

[Sharpie 0]

nature was pre all mods but with roachy mainsail

[Guest]

There is a new IRC rating RP42 being built in Christchurch for a Kerikeri owner. Plans to do Fiji etc.. Will win all NZ races on IRC ( No one else worried about it ) but will be challenged when they take it to Aussie.

Should be fast and well sailed. watch this space.

[Guest Saturday Night Special]

its Ray Hasler's is a RP design was originally going to be a Dibley boat but Ray changed his designer

[Guest]

Go to the top of the class

[markm 30]

quote="Pork Chop"]I had an IRC one for the 10.5, I thnk I rolled it up and smoked it not long after opening the envelope.. was a joke.

Put me up with and above the 40s and Anticipation

 

 

Of course PC, I couldn't help but notice that this supposedly ridiculous TCC would have put you around 5th from 48 boats in the Coastal. I suspect it's a little on the low side.

[El Toro 97]

A valid point you raise yes, however I then would have been accused and rightfully so, of cheating, as the sail config I used wasnt what I measured

[Dibley 3]

There is a new IRC rating RP42 being built in Christchurch for a Kerikeri owner. Plans to do Fiji etc.. Will win all NZ races on IRC ( No one else worried about it ) but will be challenged when they take it to Aussie.

Should be fast and well sailed. watch this space.

 

 

 

Wow, that's an impressive statement [ie]

He'll certainly do well in the offshore ocean races though.

[Guest]

Phil Simpfendorfer from Sandringham Yacht Club in Melbourne used to race an Elliot against us under IRC.

 

He spent quite a bit of time optimising the boat to fit the rule. Unlike NZ - in Australia the only serious racing is done under IRC.

 

They went well at times so the changes worked. It rated 1.072, which is pretty good. From memory it had an 11/12 fractional rig with non-overlapping headsails.

 

The best rating boats around this size under IRC have more displacement and accommodation - like archambault 40s, beneteau 40.7, etc.

 

Very few boats between 36-40 ft that are quick for their size do well under IRC. Google Wedgetail (the old one, not the 55ft new one), Chutzpah, AFR Midnight Rambler (IRC'd farr 40) to see examples of 40ft race boats that try to outsail the rule instead of being optimised to go slower. They're all cool boats but it doesn't always pay under that rule to be quicker.

 

The elliot I refer to was the one at this link.

 

The owner sold the boat and replaced it with another Elliot, a bigger IRC design that goes OK.

 

In Australia people spend big $$$ to get their boats rating well under IRC. The fleet is big and there are a lot of very nice boats racing at big events like Hammo, Hobart, Geelong Week etc.

 

IRC works - the results are generally fair, but I cant say I agree with spending money to change boats to make them rate better but not sail better. The bottom line is people spend a lot more money on race boats in Australia than here and probably don't get more enjoyment or better racing for that investment.

 

Because the existing kiwi fleet simply doesn't rate well under that rule I cant see why anyone would bother with IRC in NZ unless they plan to race in Australia or further afield.

[Cameron 74]

Will win all NZ races on IRC

 

I'd put a bottle of rum on it that Hard Labour, a 23 year old Farr 1020, takes at least one race off it at Bay of Islands Sailing Week.

 

 

I have no interest in pursuing IRC or ORC racing on a modified 1050. I just want to extract the polars for use in weather routing for the RNI. They may not be perfect but alot better than guessing everything !!!

 

Thanks Fineline for your help.

 

Cameron

[Guest]

Dibley and Cameron.

I was refering to the off shore races run from NZ so you guys are right. I recall wiining the Air New Zealand International inshore serries IMS regatta in Sunday Sun, a 30ft Warwick beating all the purpose built IMS boats including the Mumm 36's. These were all windward - leward races so the bigger boats dont get going .. Not only will a 10.20 do well under IRC, ( I know you have Cameron) You could win with a Chico 30 which had a gift rating under IMS.

And to Dibley, The new RP must do well in the NZ races ( off shore ) for 2 reasons, the first being it will be the latest IRC rated boat and the 2nd is that there will be very few boats in the races which have an IRC rating. And it will be well sailed. Happy to put a bottle of rum on that one.

The test will be the Aussie regattas.

[Dibley 3]

Dibley and Cameron.

I was refering to the off shore races run from NZ so you guys are right. I recall wiining the Air New Zealand International inshore serries IMS regatta in Sunday Sun, a 30ft Warwick beating all the purpose built IMS boats including the Mumm 36's. These were all windward - leward races so the bigger boats dont get going .. Not only will a 10.20 do well under IRC, ( I know you have Cameron) You could win with a Chico 30 which had a gift rating under IMS.

And to Dibley, The new RP must do well in the NZ races ( off shore ) for 2 reasons, the first being it will be the latest IRC rated boat and the 2nd is that there will be very few boats in the races which have an IRC rating. And it will be well sailed. Happy to put a bottle of rum on that one.

The test will be the Aussie regattas.

 

Ray Haslar is too good of a sailor to put a rum against him so I'll pass on that one , but as far as R/P go, they will need to launch their design within a very narrow rating to do well either in NZ (or Australia). It will be a difficult ask considering the Trial Ratings from RORC are just that, trial, and full of presumptions. If this is the 2nd of that design being launched, then no problems, they can learn from the first and tweak EED to to be competitive.

 

With that said, I do hope, for Ray's sake, that the risk goes his way, as a million dollar yacht is alot of money....

[Guest]

A year ago Ruby Tuesday Young 11 original keel original rig plan rated 1.052 and according to the owner John Vause (who some of you I presume know) can sail to that most of the time.

 

It's a tough rule to race in and so plonking sails that IRC doesn't like (such as a code zero) then you will get screwed over.

 

It tends to reward boats that are a little heavier and with less sail area than is popular in NZ so I can kind of see why it hasn't been massively popular.

 

Even boats built and optimised to the rule (e.g. Full Metal Jacket, campaigned across Asia in 2008 onwards) have gone through several optimisations, had some rockstar crew and even then being in a division with bigger boats, faded last Kings Cup when the winds started to fade out during the day, leaving a big hill to climb for the smaller boats in the division.

 

That said, it's pretty much the only game in town accepted internationally, and if you want to win in it, you need to work on the boat not by flicking on code zeros and the like and not necessarily making the boat slower; but rather not doing all the things that the rule doesn't like in a small boat (runners, carbon rigs, big roaches, code zeros, excessively long prods, high tech construction, etc).

 

Some boats are pretty asks to win in IRC right from the get go - for instance my Shaw 650 (1.084). But we've done it against somewhat IRC optimised boats from time to time; just means our window to win is pretty narrow. I can't imagine how we would go against the true IRC flyers like the Kers and so on that are 35 footers rating around 1.05 and the like, or IRC optimised beneteau 44.7s like Ichiban that are around 1.11 but up here the regattas would tend to not have us in the same divisions due to them not liking us (no one likes us - we could be called Nigel).

[Battleship 100]

Will win all NZ races on IRC

 

I'd put a bottle of rum on it that Hard Labour, a 23 year old Farr 1020, takes at least one race off it at Bay of Islands Sailing Week.

 

 

I have no interest in pursuing IRC or ORC racing on a modified 1050. I just want to extract the polars for use in weather routing for the RNI. They may not be perfect but alot better than guessing everything !!!

 

Thanks Fineline for your help.

 

Cameron

 

Have you read the RNI sailing instructions?

it says rule 41c is changed. Pay paticular attention to the line that says "Allowable sevices must provide the same information to all boats and not provide boat specific weather routing information"