Insurance for Trimarans

[straycat 7]

A fellow multihull owner is trying to get insurance coverage for a 40ft Trimaran, is struggling to find someone who take on his Trimaran. Its a Searunner 40.

Anyone know who would?

[Ladyhawk 37]

Weve had the same problem, Bay Insurance Brokers told us if we cancelled our policy, or changed our circumstances in pretty much any way, like move it to a mooring, we'd not get insurance at all again.

[straycat 7]

Only reason he need this is to keep on the berth in Tauranga until he gets it up to a mooring in AKL. Everyone will insure a monohull which has one fast route to Davey Jones if holed, Tris will float  always  

[Dave 11]

I couldn't find an insurer in NZ willing to take the 'risk' for my trimaran and ended up with a crowd called Edward William Marine Insurance. They're based in Spain and the underwriters appear to be Costa Rican. I did do a bit of research on the company with mixed results, suffice to say I hope I never have to make a claim. The premiums seem reasonable though and there weren't too many hoops to jump through. 

[ynot 52]

What exactly is the reasons that tricycles are hard to insure does anyone know? There must be some factual knowledge out there on crew 

Seems pretty harsh to me. 

[raz88 97]

Insurance is like a big risk club/cooperative. Say all the keeler owners in westhaven get together and put $1500 a year into a shared bank account. If one of them sinks, the money from the account is used to replace it. If 20 of them sink, there's probably not enough money in the account and the owners have to either put in more money next time or call the whole thing a failure and give up.

Now say a group of trimaran owners get together and do the same thing. Because there's relatively few of them, you don't end up with as much money in your account. You also have less chance of a boat sinking (or flipping) as there are less boats, but if one does, thats all it takes to make the whole thing a failure.

Insurance companies work based on what they know - previous claims. It seems they've learned that in NZ, the risk doesn't make it worth doing. This could be due to a few large claims in the past, or simply due to the fact that without the large numbers (like keelers have) there isn't a bunch of people hardly using their boat but paying into the pot helping prop the figures up.

 

 

[Psyche 728]

1 hour ago, ynot said:

What exactly is the reasons that tricycles are hard to insure does anyone know? There must be some factual knowledge out there on crew 

Seems pretty harsh to me. 

 

[straycat 7]

Multihulls capsize, which does cause a lot of damage on them. Also past history of home built boats all built very differently and not to any standard. Tris are less known in the sailing world and racing ones have exposed many risks. Only recently we have the likes of Neel Trimarans that are a proper production boat. 

[ynot 52]

Do they see motorbikes the same way.... Insurance Wise? I wonder.... Been a while since I had a bike and rode.... Is the cost of insurance reletive to value more expensive than cars these days? 

 

 

[waikiore 445]

Statistically in NZ at least, claims for multihulls and concrete boats far outweigh those for conventional monohulls and launches hence the companies being so shy.Just think of all those old Pivers and Wharrams gently going soft, then we have the GBE,s great boats but show me one that hasnt been over at least once.

[CarpeDiem 510]

The primary issue seems to be that no company provides 3rd party insurance only. 

Marina's (and yacht race organisers) require that boats have 3rd party liability insurance of ~$5M.  They don't care about your boat, they care about the other boats and infrastructure around you. 

I don't understand why 3rd party only insurance isn't available for boats like it is for cars. It would make perfect sense for these types of high risk vessels. 

[aardvarkash10 1,065]

8 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:

I don't understand why 3rd party only insurance isn't available for boats like it is for cars. It would make perfect sense for these types of high risk vessels. 

because the cost differential is so minimal, its not worth it.  As you note, the cost of damage to the insured craft is often significantly less than the cost of 3rd party damage.

There is just no pay-back for the insurer to offer it.  Simple business decision.

We have a similar problem insuring ski club assets at Mt Ruapehu.  A bundled risk with all the clients exposed to exactly the same risk at the same time makes it a low probablity, high loss gamble.  We insure essentially to get a site clearance value in the case of a total loss (the most likely outcome), but the insurers are not interested in providing site clearance only since there is no profit in it for them.

[CarpeDiem 510]

I don't understand that.

How does the type of craft increase the risk of third party damage.  A trimaran is no more likely to cause damage to the marina or a neighboring boat than a monohull is - is it?

I can insure a monohull for full loss and for 3rd party for $1500pa.

In the event the insurance company won't cover my vessel for damage, why can't I just buy that 3rd party liability for $1500pa?

[Steve Pope 253]

A few months back I mentioned to Baileys insurance Brokers that I was thinking of taking my yacht (37" centre boarder ) around to Whangape and to Whakapirau in the Kaipara Harbour, as I have previously done twice before, only to be told on a return call that the insurance company they have me insured with would cancel my insurance if I did go around. Apparently they refuse to insure any craft on or using the West coast. Hence I am still an East coaster.

[Black Panther 1,692]

I have insurance,  then I go wherever I choose and accept there are occasions when I'm not covered.

[khayyam 93]

14 hours ago, ynot said:

What exactly is the reasons that tricycles are hard to insure does anyone know? There must be some factual knowledge out there on crew 

Seems pretty harsh to me. 

Combination of claims history and market size I'd think. Lots of past expensive claims means they'd have to be quite careful as to which to take on, and charge high premiums, and small market size means it's not worth the trouble to do so.

 

 

[Psyche 728]

4 hours ago, ynot said:

Do they see motorbikes the same way.... Insurance Wise? I wonder.... Been a while since I had a bike and rode.... Is the cost of insurance reletive to value more expensive than cars these days? 

 

 

My bike has pretty reasonable insurance as i am in a certain pool of both bikes and riders that present low risk. Its all to do with how the actuaries assign risk.

Tris are probably lumped in with rafts in general, but all those Lagoons and Leopards must have cover so perhaps age and materials matter?

[Steve Pope 253]

On 27/01/2022 at 11:03 AM, Black Panther said:

I have insurance,  then I go wherever I choose and accept there are occasions when I'm not covered.

I am the same, My point was more to do with their refusal to cover any ship, yacht, boat etc. for the whole west coast area. I would expect the claims from the East coast would far outweigh any from the West coast.

[khayyam 93]

3 minutes ago, Steve Pope said:

I am the same, My point was more to do with their refusal to cover any ship, yacht, boat etc. for the whole west coast area. I would expect the claims from the East coast would far outweigh any from the West coast.

In total numbers, sure, but only because there's nobody on the wc. Very different as a rate I'd think.

[alibaba 80]

Nobody on the West Coast?? On a day like this there would be at least 300 vessels out over the various bars, and if Raglan has a fishing competition on, that easily doubles.

One of the things I note, is that the number of calls for assistance that Coastguard gets on the West Coast are far fewer than on the East Coast. I think because the bar crossings are known to be dangerous, the Westies take better care of their craft, very few seem to run out of fuel etc compared to the EAst, which is more benign.

That said, when it does go wrong on the West COast ........

Do insurance companies not cover all these vessels? Having a yacht I wouldn't know, but I find it hard to believe that they are all uninsured?