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SSANZ Triple Series 2022


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I must say it is very confusing trying to work out who is against who , then throw in the no extras , bit tricky for any organising committee

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23 hours ago, ex Elly said:

Is it possible to split this division now?

 

Everything is possible 

there are 3 ways that come to mind

1 Money   (Sponsor the event)

2 Time  (Volunteer to be race officer and be out there all night)

3 both of the above. (Join the committee and provide the committee boat/sponsor a course)

 

some are happier to win a division of 40 something than 10ish boats (interesting how all podium boats would be below your split and everyone of these boats has selected this division and had the chance to swap if it didn’t suit.

Leaders all sailed extremely we, it will be interesting to see what happens with different conditions in the next two, heavy weather should suit the bigger boats but let’s see.

SSANZ isn’t “kiwi sport” 

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Ok, thanks.  It just seems odd that last year there were 2 divisions with 24 boats in each, and this year they have been combined.

 

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One story is that Truxton crossed the finish line at 2:30am, then turned around and sailed straight to Tauranga! 😲
(If the tracker is correct).

 

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1 hour ago, ex Elly said:

One story is that Truxton crossed the finish line at 2:30am, then turned around and sailed straight to Tauranga! 😲 (If the tracker is correct).

 

Yeah they are bloody legends! What a massive effort. 

We thought our night was hard after arriving at the weiti river bar at 4:45am and having to anchor and wait 2hrs for the tide. 

Lovely day for racing. Much lighter than we thought. Lots of reaching on the long course. Nice 5-10kt tactical beat up the inside of corromandel. We opted to make a ballsy call and fo inside all the Islands and were glad to have a few other boats follow us but it paid off. nicely.  Beat from durville to flat rock wasn't that pleasant with up to 25kts. Run home was frustrating as we were geared up for the 35+kt front that we were watching aproach on the rain radar but it was a fizzer and never really amounted to much other than some drizzle and windshift. 

Anyway a long but pretty pleasant race. And a 4th for us on kick to go with the win in the first race so still in the hunt.  

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20 hours ago, Psyche said:

Some pretty brutal handicaps in the Nana division :) I might have had a chance!

Nana division a bit brutal Psyche

we have a different name for it.

Lots of boats in that division that could easily have done the Railblazer division 1, we increased the upper handicap to .860 phrf but don’t think May realised

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On 1/08/2022 at 8:07 PM, Psyche said:

Some pretty brutal handicaps in the Nana division :) I might have had a chance!

Unfortunately the handicapper made some large adjustments after race one. 👎
Was a bad idea to make such big changes based on one race where boats are finishing in a dying breeze, in my opinion. 

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That’s the major difference between Racetrack (fast) and PHRF (slow) rate of change

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10 hours ago, Jon said:

That’s the major difference between Racetrack (fast) and PHRF (slow) rate of change

Actually SSANZ isn't using Racetrack at all! as the handicaps in the Evo division are different to Racetrack.

I believe they are actually General Handicaps derived and influenced by Racetrack but actually are different numbers.

Racetrack ratings actually don't change that much or fast after 1 race.

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General handicaps for the triple series have four components.  SSANZ racing excluding RNI,RNZ from the prior three seasons, RaceTrack, design assessment and for races 2 and 3, earlier racing from the current series.  Manual consideration is also a factor but as stated is the starting point with,approximately equal weighting to each component.  That isn't always possible as it's dependent on there being previous racing.

It can be argued, quite reasonably. that race 1 this season should not have had handicaps changed afterwards, or changed minimally though my cynical side tends towards the view that how reasonable this is corrolates quite well with how well you placed in the race.

I've been doing the general handicaps since 2014 and the issue is that I've thought the weather, whether dying or building breeze or weather coming through in waves has been a significant factor in results for 20 of the 23 races in that time, worse, two of the three where I didn't think it was significant were the final race in the series, so, well we weren't changing handicaps after those two anyway.  

That shouldn't be much of a surprise for those with knowledge of Auckland winter weather, it's more likely than not either pretty light or blowing strong and change over a period of more than six hours and particularly after dusk is the rule, not the exception.

Also consider, the argument that change should be minimal/none because of weather conditions assumes that the next race won't have similar conditions.  If the next race does, changing handicaps based on the prior race and changing to a fuller extent would absolutely be the right thing to do.

Finally, consider the triple series has three races only, sometimes two but we won't go there.  It isn't a 10 race series where there is latitude for handicaps to correct over the series.  If any boats handicap is significantly wrong in race one and handicaps for whatever reason do not change, the mistake propagates through race two and the series can be effectively over, notwithstanding how handicaps may change, or not, in race 3.  It is the reason why I allow larger handicap changes than would be the norm during the manual consideration part of the handicap setting, more smaller changes simply don't work in a three race series.

At present, policy is to always change general handicap and to assume nothing with respect to weather.

Back to the initial part of this post which is the more interesting part.  

minimising or Discarding races for unfair weather effectively removes the first two parts of the approach.  It's possible to minimise handicap change for the next race but extremely difficult to factor that into the basic approach ongoing without excluding races completely.

Is it a reasonable approach, would excluding the actual short handed parts improve it?  Would capping the degree of change improve it and if so, to what extent?  Is it possible to somehow objectively determine what constitutes a 'weather unfair' race and if so, how?  My assessment is based on whether I thought more than 10-15% of the fleet was significantly affected by building / dying / seriously weird stuff, it does show in results.

Cconstructave feedback of how to address weaknesses or what may be better and at a level that fits with reality isn't easy but is both welcome and useful.  If the majority could actually agree, well that would be the icing.

And Psyche, if your comment actually related to Psyche, you must know I'm going to point out that while your handicap may have been truly crippling and the ultimate in unfair, perhaps being DNS was a bigger issue for your result.
 

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A driftathon and then a dying breeze, basically impossible to handiap.

Whats the bets the final race is 20-25+ kts🌬️

 

Gotta say, racetrack is an incredible resource/dataset, both from trying to set handicaps, to even just researching and tracking down boats. It's also in some cases really edivent when ownership of boats changed as the rating shifts significantly.

 

Long may it continue!

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46 minutes ago, Ed said:

A driftathon and then a dying breeze, basically impossible to handiap.

Whats the bets the final race is 20-25+ kts🌬️

 

Gotta say, racetrack is an incredible resource/dataset, both from trying to set handicaps, to even just researching and tracking down boats. It's also in some cases really edivent when ownership of boats changed as the rating shifts significantly.

 

Long may it continue!

The man deserves a medal 

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8 hours ago, markm said:

And Psyche, if your comment actually related to Psyche, you must know I'm going to point out that while your handicap may have been truly crippling and the ultimate in unfair, perhaps being DNS was a bigger issue for your result.

Nothing to do with me, I didnt race, just giving my competition a rev up! My approach to SSANZ is always about racing the boats in front that are a few notches better than me.

Never had any issues with my racetrack handicap (or PHRF) and often refer to it so see how I am performing against history as club handicaps can seem a bit out of whack at time, probably for all the reasons you mention.

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Thanks for the explanation Mark.

Some suggestions:
1) Boat history. Maybe the adjustment could vary depending on the known history. So for a boat with a lot of history, less adjustment would occur as the handicap is reasonably good to start with. But for a boat with little or no history, bigger adjustments should be allowed.
2) Limits. Maybe place a maximum on the adjustment that can occur. For example, someone has gear failure, or gets stuck in a hole that everyone else avoids, or takes a flyer and gets a breeze that no-one else does. This is unlikely to happen to the same boat in the next race.

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On 2/08/2022 at 4:54 PM, Jon said:

Nana division a bit brutal Psyche

we have a different name for it

Yeah , starts with p, ends with ussies

2 years ago we entered small boat and were told we had to race short haul and should be in long haul. Paid for 6 races and 2 prizegivings, got 4 races, no prizegivings and smashed in 2 of them. Still went out and kicked arse but decided to sit this year out.

This year half the boats we beat in short haul and higher divisions are racing in small boat division!

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