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Good beginner boats?


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Hi all,

 

Finally got my account activated, yay!

 

I'm very new to sailing (recently finished a class), and just starting to look up boats. I'm looking for something that's easy to sail and safe for coastal sailing with the wife/family. I see the Southerly 23 listed for pretty cheap (about $5k on avg, is that right?) but I've seen mixed reviews from forums and other places. The Variant also looks good, but a bit more expensive (around $7k average?).

 

I'm also keeping my eyes on Tracker 7.7, Reactor 25, Raven 26, and Farr 727, but those are a lot more expensive and I'm not sure if it's worth the investment for a first boat.

 

Thoughts/info/recommendations would be appreciated. Keep in mind that I'm a complete beginner. Also, I definitely don't want a trailer-sailer, as I've heard that they're a bit harder to sail and/or not quite as safe.

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Add the S&S 24 to your list to watch for.

 

Ah, right, yeah I forgot about them since I can't seem to find any of them on trademe.

 

Do you guys know what are the benefits of the more expensive boats (Tracker, Reactor, etc) in comparison to the cheaper ones (Southerly, Variant)? Does it have anything to do with safety or ease of handling?

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As someone who's recently gone through the same process, my best advice is to get on a few and have a look around - you'll quickly start to see big differences in things like cockpit space, headroom etc.

 

Ravens for example are really roomy inside - great for sailing with the family - but perhaps at the expense of a bit of performance. Variants have bugger all headroom, but they're great value and very stable/safe little boats. My partner recently sold his for about 5k so you can pick them up pretty cheap. Reactors have a reputation for being incredibly seaworthy little boats - many have sailed oceans - but I found them a little too cramped for my liking, etc etc.

 

Have a sail on them too if you can - you'd be surprised how many complete strangers will be happy to take you out for a quick sail so you can see how their boat handles! Try the class associations for contacts.

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Sweet, yeah, that's a great advice actually, I should at least give them a look and see what they're like. My family and our immediate relative are relatively short (I'm 5'6", wife's 5'2"), so headroom's not an issue. Space isn't a big deal either as it'll be 99% of the time just me or me and the wife.

 

Curiously, what did you end up buying?

 

I see such a big variation in prices between even the same type of boats (for instance, Reactors going for 10k to 15k; Ravens for 10k to 20k), it scares me just thinking about what could be wrong with the cheaper ones, while at the same time I have to keep in mind that it may perhaps be a bargain. So scary.......

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Im not sure if there will be any in your price range, but H28's are good little cruisers and they wont scare the family.

 

A friend of a friend actually has an H28 for sale, but the asking price is $26k, which is about 15-20k out of my price range, hahaha. :cry:

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Im not sure if there will be any in your price range, but H28's are good little cruisers and they wont scare the family.

 

A friend of a friend actually has an H28 for sale, but the asking price is $26k, which is about 15-20k out of my price range, hahaha. :cry:

 

'Asking prices' and 'Sale prices' are two completely different monsters in todays market. Offer him $10K and see what happens - you might be surprised.

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I think BB has it right, go suss and see what 'fits' you best.

 

Don't forget that when you do that try to imagine what it would be like at the end of the second day of totally crap wet weather. That's when lots of space suddenly isn't quite enuff, especially with kids aboard. And while pondering that also remember a damn good boom tent can make a lot if knot all of the cockpit a very viable living space even in crap weather.

 

I wouldn't rush into a purchase just at the moment but it something comes up grab it. I think prices won't rise for a while even if a lot of the boats mentioned have been pretty much the same price for many years now and will probably stay similar for many more, assuming the boat is looked after. So I don't see any price rise pressure to worry about.

 

The main differences between a lot of the boats you mention are only space and speed. Obviously the bigger faster cost more than the slower smaller.

 

But here's an interesting thing I ran into just last week which could be of interest to you. I have a R930 so a 31ft yacht. She has OK room and performance. I happened to be rowing past a random boat and got the call to come aboard for a beer as the dude recognised me and I did something good for him he tells me. Being a thirsty sort of a dude I did. His boat was also a 31ft yacht, a bit older and knot as fast but when talking space the difference was massive. We can swing a decent sized kitten yet he could easily swing a full grown lion. Outside they looked similar but inside was like hopping from a 30fter to a 40fter. The morel of that dribble is 'Don't judge a book by it's cover'. So don't write a boat off by thinking it looks to small from the outside, you could be horribly wrong.

 

And if you see one you like make a silly offer, at worst case all you'll hear is 'No try again' but you, as a few have over the last year or 2, may just hear 'Oh, OK then'.

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Yep, I'll definitely have a look at the ones nearby (anywhere in Auckland or surrounding areas basically). Do people generally put boats up for sale on TradeMe? Or are there a bunch to be found that's only listed on the boards of different sailing clubs? I'll probably drive to several marinas to see if I can find any for sale that aren't listed on trademe I guess.

 

Not really looking to buy any time soon honestly. I'm in the process of trying to find someone who needs a crew and doesn't mind a newbie, which as you can imagine is fairly tough. I'm even willing to help out doing manual work to repair the boat too, since I want to learn as much as possible about the boats, so I thought I'd have an easier time finding people, but not much luck so far. I want a bit more experience before purchasing a boat.

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Have a look at the harmonics they are one boat that looks small on the outside and heaps of room on the inside. There is a couple on trade me and are around 10K mark. Just another one for you to look at.

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Have a look at the harmonics they are one boat that looks small on the outside and heaps of room on the inside. There is a couple on trade me and are around 10K mark. Just another one for you to look at.

 

How do they compare to the other boats I mentioned in terms of safety/ease to sail? I noticed the two on trademe, but I can't seem to find much info on Harmonic keelers, so I wasn't sure.

 

Btw, maybe a silly question, but is a keeler the same thing as a trailer-sailer? I'm trying to stay away from trailer-sailers.

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Trailer sailers are (usually) lift keel/centreboard yachts. Keelers are (usually) fixed keel and (usually) stay in the water except for when maintenance is required.

Not sure why you're trying to stay away from them (trailer sailers) though - any reason? They do offer some advantages - especially if your budget is tight.

 

If you are wanting to try different boats and meet owners and like minded newbies then I can recommend you and your partner contact Richmond Yacht Club (just google their site and email them) and do the "Friday Night Friendly" series. You join the series and you get to go on different yachts each Friday. All very friendly - lots of newbies plus experienced skipper. You'll learn a lot and have a lot of fun.

 

I was recommended to them and I've done it - great fun, good people and great food in the clubhouse afterwards!

Uuuumh, I might have had a beer or two as well......... :lol: :lol:

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If your budget is tight I really would recommend a trailer sailer. A keeler is going to cost you at least a couple of grand a year to keep in the water once you've paid mooring fees and maintenance - lots more if you prefer a marina. Trailer sailer you can park at home, no annual anti-foul etc.

 

There are some really solid trailer sailers out there. The Farr 6000 is a great little boat, but quite expensive (probably for good reason). Plenty of room inside. I've heard the Aquarius is a good boat. The Nolexes are faster but less roomy. I have friends who sailed for 20 years with two children on their Young 7m and I think they still looks back on it as a more enjoyable boat to sail than their current keeler. http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 752150.htm

 

Sure, a trailer sailer can capsize more easily than a keeler but the sort of conditions that a beginner is going to head out in aren't going to cause too many problems. You can get as far as Barrier if you're sensible and you can chuck it on the trailer and go to the bay of islands, Taupo, Rotorua, even the South Island if you feel so inclined.

 

Good trailer sailers have a much better resale potential than keelers so if you spend a couple of years on one then decide you do need more space or want to cross oceans you can easily upgrade.

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My sailing instructor just recommended beginners to stay away from them if our main concern is safety/stability. I also don't have a car/truck powerful enough to pull a trailer-sailer, so it'd actually turn out to be more expensive up-front. Though, I suppose I could trade in my current car, but even then, I use my car to drive to the city daily, and a powerful truck would eat up more gas, so it'd probably also be more expensive overall.

 

I keep seeing "centreboard" yachts mentioned, but still don't even really know what that means either. Yeah, I'm a newbie, lol.

 

The "Friday Night Friendly" is a great recommendation, I had no idea something like this exists!!! I wonder if there are similar things for clubs that are closer to where I live. I'll definitely try giving it a go!

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Where do you live?

 

Thursdays @ Ponsonby Cruising Club in summer meet at 3pm for 4pm race start.

 

I work only 4km away from the Ponsonby club, but even then there's no way I can get out by 3pm. I don't understand how so many people can participate in weekday races during work hours. Would love to help out after-hours or weekends, but I imagine so would everyone else who can't do Thursdays, hehe. :cry:

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I agree, that trailer sailors aren't all bad. A few of them gave the breed a bad name a while ago and people who don't know too much about them think they are unsafe. A club member is selling a Catalina - now they are seriously good boats. Take a look at http://www.weiti.co.nz/Brokerage.htm It's the Catalina, a big bang for the buck. Give him a call.

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Curiously, what did you end up buying?

Aha... now you're asking...

 

I was pretty close to buying a tidy little Tracker in Auckland, and even put in some ridiculously low offers on a Farr 920, and thought long and hard about doing up an un-loved Ross 930...

 

Then a friend recommended a boat that his mate was selling - an older 30 foot wooden 'half-tonner', originally designed for offshore racing. Wasn't exactly what I had on my list - e.g. I wanted a GRP boat, not a wooden one, and the cabin layout wasn't quite what I had in mind, but the chance of buying an offshore-capable boat with my coastal-cruiser budget was too good to miss, so I bought it. Now I'm planning to sail round the world on her. It's funny how things turn out!

 

But yeah, you'll be surprised how quickly you whittle down what you're interested in once you've started to get on board a few boats. Try Tony at Westhaven Marine Brokers - he showed me around a LOT of small boats at Westhaven when I was looking at buying.

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