Guest Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 My belief is that we are likely to see compulsory registration before we see licensing simply because councils will gather more revenue by introducing registration. Neither licensing or registration will make one iota of difference to the number of accidents as most are caused by plain stupidity. If you don't believe my above statement look at the roads we have had both for decades and has it really made a difference. Sure you can identify the culprits but when was the last time you reported someone being an idiot on the roads. As a parent I would like to see my kids grow up with the same freedoms that I had as a teen but because of the actions of a few it seems the whole boating public will eventually be penalised by the actions of a few. I would like to see the culprits taken to task and given heavy fines rather than introducing more rules and regulations. I am a commercial operator (power) and a recreational wind bludger so I get to see the F#$kwits on most days of the week. Just try a trip down the Rangitoto channel at 4:00am on a saturday morning and see the amount of boats underway or fishing in the chanel with no lights. Don't worry Yachts have their fair share of F#$kwits too try a sunday evening after 10pm to see yacts sailing around with no lights and expecting a 40,000 tonne container ship to get out of their way. This is the sort of behaviour that will ultimately lead to registration being introduced, hell it has already happened to jet skier's. Link to post Share on other sites
ScottiE 174 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Wetdream - I look out over the moorings to the South of BBYC and have seen what you describe. Most mornings that I'm walking around Pt England it surprises me how fast guys pass that part of the channel. But equally - how easy would it be for one of the harbourmaster's lads to sit on Pt England or even the lookout above the spit with a high powered lens and just ping the fuckwits. I thought the legislation was already in place for them to impose penalties. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 To me,these latest reportings are typical of authorities across the board and why I get my knickers twisted.Maybe the media "tweaks" things and such reactions are an authoritarian minority?In the latest incidents we have an 11yo,a a 13yo,a 16yo and a 17yo in trouble.And a local harbour master is quoted as saying "all boaties should be licensed". Link to post Share on other sites
marinheiro 352 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 No matter what the "good intentions" are, it just becomes another form of tax. I had a boat in Western Australia with bloody great letters on the side of it and had to pay the rego fee, which not surprisingly seemed to increase every year. Then without any consultation by the last state govt licensing was brought in. What has it done for safety - absolutely nothing. Check out NSW, they have licensing there the longest and you will find more accidents per capita than NZ. Look at all the posts complaining about OSH, do you want to let something like this loose on our enjoyment on the water. And there is always the car license analogy, in Brazil we have an annual road toll of around 40,000 (that's right) per year, and most of those who were driving had licenses. Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Driving Licences has stopped vehicle accidents and road deaths. Gun Licences has stopped shooting accicdents and mass or random killings. Pilot Licences has stopped mid air collisions and crash landings. Building Permits (Licences) has stopped leaky homes. Medical Licences has stopped people dying in operations. The list is long and in various forms, licences have been around for years. I have every confidence licensing power boat drivers will achieve safety. Oh I forgot the Tui add borders etc. Personally education is the key. At a practical level, the MSA could make insurance compulsory, with massive reductions if you have the different certificates e.g. VHF operators, First Aid, Day Skipper, Boatmaster etc. So the existing situation remains, but becomes self-policing and emphasis on self-education because if as a new power boat "tinny" owner, I could save $500 on my insurance if I do a $100 day skipper course. Years ago, when building a 65ft ketch for an Italian, he said he needed a radar with these specifications (e.g. 6 mile & 20m mile settings, I forget the exact details). "Why?" I asked. "I get 1.5% Insurance Premium reduction from Lloyds if it does." "Done" I said. The reduction over 2 or 3 years paid for the radar costs. Simple economics. Link to post Share on other sites
grant 40 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 To me,these latest reportings are typical of authorities across the board and why I get my knickers twisted.Maybe the media "tweaks" things and such reactions are an authoritarian minority?In the latest incidents we have an 11yo,a a 13yo,a 16yo and a 17yo in trouble.And a local harbour master is quoted as saying "all boaties should be licensed". Why do you get these media reports and comments? One word would be frustration. Boating has relatively few rules and regs (and who doesn't like that?) and the rules that are in place are easy to find out about and learn. and yet.... we have idiots that don't see the need , or can be bothered, or do know the rules and don't care (they're the worst) and create carnage and mayhem that will end up costing everyone. It is easy to overlook that most boaties don't cause any problems, we all know the media don't really like good news stories as much as bad news. We provide information to boat shops on the bylaws to be given out when boats (esp jetskis) are sold and then we will talk to someone breaking the rules that bought from there who claims they didn't know. Either the shop forgot or just as likely the new owner was too excited about playing with thier new toy to listen. So short of making them pass a test before they are allowed to take their toy away how do you make them learn the rules so they know how to behave? Powerboats (yes, seafleas are power boats) cause the majority of the issues but yachts are not completely blame free either, we still have the odd yacht that thinks he can get past big ships that he really shouldn't be messing with. And even on here we have an admission from a resonably experienced boatie that he's not sure how to apply of the give way rules for yachts. (not meaning to pick on you wheels, but by inference you did call me a "Gvt cretin", so it guess it's fair ) Actually if you wanted to get started on nav lights then yachts are probably worse offenders. Did you know the the motoring light (thats for when the motor is on, and you become a "powerboat") is supposed to be ABOVE the side lights, doesn't work too well with masthead tricolours. It has been suggested that only 'powerboats' require licences, but a yacht under motor is a powerboat.... and if you didn't require a licence for something with a rig and sails there would be launchs with blokarts strapped to the flybridge all over the place. Thankfully the media hasn't started calling for registration yet, because that is just a dead duck. No benefit to safety and a completee nightmare for all concered, thankfully the National Pleaseure Baot Furm also hold the view that it would not be beneficial in terms of safety. and to those who believe that the "bureaucratic machine" or us "Govt cretins" spend all day plotting and looking for ways to bleed you dry and screw all the fun out of life, I can assure you that in our office ( and I would suggest, most of my colleagues around the country)we really don't have the time or energy for that sort of cr*p, heck some of us are actually boaties too maybe i should get out of the office and issue a few tickets now Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 343 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Speaking of tickets, does anyone know if the boats exceeding 12 knots on auckland harbour ever get pinged? It seems a lot of the bigger Gin Palaces are slowing down, but not many runabouts? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 How about requiring a licence to drive anything capable of 10kts under power - that excludes most yachts. It shouldn't be a difficult licence to get, something like spending a few hours in a classroom at Coastguard before filling in a test. Basicly it should be something to say "yup, I know there are rules regarding right of way, I know what safety gear I need to carry and how to use it, I know how to check how much fuel I have before leaving the ramp and yup, I promise to remember everything!" Next thing we should do is put police boats around every headland, entrances to marinas, rivers, etc. Give them all radar guns and a ticket quota. If we are going to give out licences, we need to have an easy way for people to clock up demerits and lose it! When I did my first commercial skipper's ticket back in 1988 it was 4 weeks at school plus ancillary courses and that was after 18 month's sea time as a deckhand. I still crapped myself the first time I jumped aboard the first 40 footer I leased. A few hours in the classroom is never going to cut it. That being said, I am against recreational licensing but would have no problem having a levy imposed against all recreational users as long as that levy was used exclusively for education and enforcement. We have the rules in place already, we don't need any more. Link to post Share on other sites
rigger 47 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 If the media were genuinely concerned they could do a series on water and boat safety in the lead up to the silly season, perhaps target it at kids / schools as a competition with prizes.... parents might get embaraed into doing the right thing by their kids and in the latest accidents it was all young people. I think education is the best way. With regards to enforcement - perhaps for those boaties caught breaking the rules (including the local ones ie +12kn in harbour etc) they get landed with a big fine that gets reduced on completion of an appropriate training course. Link to post Share on other sites
ScottiE 174 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 fizznasties are the boyracers of the sea. I say if they get caught - crush the fuckers! Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 343 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I thought Multihull Sailors were the boy racers of the sea? Hotted up boats, loud stereos, too much drinking, careering around barely in control... Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 sounds more like a weekend away in the piedy knot you pansy multi sailors Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 343 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Such a smart mouth on such a little boy. But you'll find many multi sailors are ex piedy sailors. We just have more money now. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Can anyone even try to guess or explain how they could get all NZ boats registered or drivers of licensed? I'd suggest that would be totally impossible to do, even if the wildest politicians dreams. Bare in mind NZ has something like 1.3 boats per household. That's 4 million boats and increasing at 16,000 boats a year so they say, it's never going to happen or at least happen in an effective way that will make the slightest difference on the water. As for education, yeap a good idea but do we have the people needed to educate 4 plus million people? Nope, knot even close. Yes some will now be saying CG can but have a look in their latest book, they can't even tie a simple bowline. Knot a good look one would suggest. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Speaking of tickets, does anyone know if the boats exceeding 12 knots on auckland harbour ever get pinged? It seems a lot of the bigger Gin Palaces are slowing down, but not many runabouts? Clipper, I saw a few Gin palaces pulled up last year in the harbour and on one occasion we are fairly sure the ticket book came out. I think better enforcement of the current rules is the way to go. Hit the guys both power and sail causing the problems in the pocket rather than saddling us all with more rules and regulation (and expense) It is well known that the harbourmaster has between one and two boats on the water most week days (9:00am till around 4:30pm) and same for weekends but policing the harbour needs to be a 24/7 operation with more boats on the water to be effective. Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I had a crazy situation in Germany last year where in order to do a regatta I found a little kid who had the licence, but not much idea on boats or sailing. So we raced together and because I knew how to sail, and he had the paper everything was fine. But just goes to show.... Sitting a test and passing on paper means nothing. It's a waste of time. And the German test isn't a short munti choice either, it's an 8 week part time effort! Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Because the original question on this forum asked if powerboat(er)s should be licensed/registered, I voted yes. 2 weeks ago I may have said no, but after an arrogant display by a fizz boater I'm inclined to think f*ck 'em, lets make it more expensive and difficult for pricks like this to get on the water. A fizz boater was motoring out from the beach at Tiri doing approx 4.999 knots - almost on the plane and of course rocking every boat on the way past. As they went past I yelled out to them "Hey! take a look behind you, you're disturbing every boat in the bay!" The response was a rude litany of disgusting language from a teenage girl passenger while her (presumably) parents looked on and said or did nothing about her display of, well frankly, pig ignorance. I mean if she hasn't even been taught manners at all, let alone the rules of the sea, what chance does she have to become a decent human being? As they carried on motoring out throwing up their huge pre-planing wake her voice could be heard over the outboard until eventually it was lost as they sped up. There's no place for wankers like them on the water and they should stay home at the trailer park. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Isnt there already a law?Were they not breaking the speed limit in proximity to the shore or a moored vessel? Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 No, sounds like they were doing no more than 5 kts. The question about licensing though is "Would it lead to fewer instances of AA's example - maybe indirectly through better education which comes from some kind of test required to get your license." The VHF license is a good example. The airwaves are literred with examples of poor VHF technique but on average it isn't bad and is mainly fit for purpose. The short course that people have to do the get their VHF license probably helps this in some way, so whilst the airwaves aren't perfect imagine how much worse it would be if you could just buy a set and switch on without any form of tuition/license? So I am inclined to agree that a basic motor boaters license might reduce (but not totally eliminate) bad practices. And why restrict it to motor boats? Well because they are faster and more powerful and more likely to cause more severe side effects than yachts when mishandled. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 From the Herald If incidents like those of the past few days continue, there will, inevitably, be rising pressure for mandatory requirements, starting perhaps with safety equipment. Compulsory education courses, particularly for young boaties, would be another obvious step. If these proved ineffective, the calls for licensing would increase. AA are you actually contributing to this "rising pressure"?Can anyone say who is causing this rising pressure.If people you know nothing about go out and drown themselves why would you care?I would say they have a right to risk their own lives and if they screw up,drowning is the tradition and it is well known.I am suspicious as hell about who is creating this "rising pressure"? Link to post Share on other sites
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