grant 40 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 .I am suspicious as hell about who is creating this "rising pressure"? maybe a combination of the media and anybody that doesn't know much about boating??? and maybe a few of the very frustrated people that have to deal with these idiots up close, but mostly the first would be my guess Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Interesting comment Grant. The Coroners have a big input here and I am suprised they should be allowed to. Surely their role is to find the reason why a death has occured and then full stop. But they are going beyond that and suggesting to the Gvt how the laws should be changed. But they are not experienced enough to make those recommendations. For instance, the latest quade bike accident, the Coroner has made many recommendations to the Gvt. One was to actually ban the bikes completely. Another was to have Roll bars fitted, a helmet to be worn and a seatbelt. A Roll bar I can agree with. Helmet, well that depends a little on what exactly did past deaths die from. Was it head injuries. But the idea of a Roll bar is just plain stupid. A quade bike is steered and balanced by the transference of body weight and a seatbelt would make that impossible. So where am I going with all of this?? well it means that a person with no actual operating experience has made a knee jerk reaction and recommendation of rules to be made with no practicle experience to do so. A Gvt official then gets those recommendations and quite possibly could implement those reccomendations because they also have no practicle experiance. Then I am absolutely sure that the media has an enormous amount of instigation in all this also by have the stories seemingly blown all out of proportion. I have been discussing a similar situation with that in regards to the OZy floods. Several people are saying " oh Wow, the End is nigh" kind of discussion and I am saying, well actually, this flood is no different to anything that has come before and in fact, has not broken past records. Yet media and also the Gvt officials using this as a platform to launch their egos from are blowing this out of proportion. Don't get me wrong, it is a major event and sad people have died, but lets get real here, this is a common event and the real argument should surely be, why on earth have people been allowed to biuld homes in a flood area, that floods like it does every 20 to 30yrs. The OZy prime minister is using words that make it sound like a National disaster and promoting herself and Gvt with how they are handling the situation. Even John Key said yeterday, an entire State is underwater. Well actually it is not. It is a flood area bothsides of a major river. In reality, it is quite small, when you place the area against the enormous size of those OZy states. Link to post Share on other sites
grant 40 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I forgot about the coroners, however as you say they make RECOMMENDATIONS only. If they were all followed all recreational boats would now be required to carry EPIRB's. I think their recommendations provide a good starting point to discuss the issue but as Wheels pointed out, it is only the coroner's view and not an expert opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Licensing and registration won't work without being properly policed Some of the speed limits to create wake free zones are absolutely bizarre. When the last match race series for America's cup class yachts was on the Harbour Master imposed a 12 knot speed restriction to keep wakes to a minimum. 12 knots, where the hell did that figure come from. We were outbond so acalled the harbourmasters boat to find the best way through the spectator fleet and was reminded of the 12 knot restriction. If a ten foot dinghy went through there at 12 knots it would probably be fine as it would be up on the plane leaving barely a ripple behind it, however if I had been bloody minded and went through there at 12 knots in a 15 metre vessel weighing 17 tonnes we would have caused absolute carnage even if we were able to keep 50 metres away from other vessels. Using common sense we actually disengadged one engine and motored through the fleet of anchored boats at 5 knots which is dead slow ahead on one engine. With such a diverse range of boats on Auckland harbour you can have a small runabout climbing out of the hole at five knots putting up a horrendous wake and a 60 foot yacht motoring down the harbour at nine and barely leaving a ripple behind it. The twelve knot restriction is a joke, I recently saw Vodafone out on the harbour and what an imressive beast she is but only trouble was she was doing about 20 knots boatspeed in the 12knot zone and this is also true of the skiffs and other multihulls in the area. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Some of the speed limits to create wake free zones are absolutely bizarre.When the last match race series for America's cup class yachts was on the Harbour Master imposed a 12 knot speed restriction to keep wakes to a minimum. 12 knots, where the hell did that figure come from. The 12 knot limit in Auckland was about vessels being in control, not about wake mitigation. There is already legislation covering the 5 knot rule for that, as well as "operating a vessel in a manner that causes annoyance" or something like that. Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 343 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 The twelve knot restriction is a joke, I recently saw Vodafone out on the harbour and what an imressive beast she is but only trouble was she was doing about 20 knots boatspeed in the 12knot zone and this is also true of the skiffs and other multihulls in the area. The speed limit applies to all power-driven craft, with the exception of some ferries on particular routes, the police and other emergency response craft. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Even John Key said yeterday, an entire State is underwater. Well actually it is not. It is a flood area bothsides of a major river. In reality, it is quite small, when you place the area against the enormous size of those OZy states. Agree with a lot of what you say Wheels, however, that is not true. Yesterday the estimate was that the flooded area was equal to the combined land areas of Germany and France combined. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 That is indeed true. If you look at the length of that flood area, It's longer than NZ. But if you look at the width, it's not so wide. On the big grand scale of things when compared to little ole NZ, it's huge and yes it is equal to France and Germany. But when you compare it to the Queensland area, it actually doesn't cover such a big area, compared to the share size of state is what i am meaning. It is still a normal typical flood plain along side a river that floods every so many years. If we look at it another way, it would be like biulding a town on Lake Eyre. It's dry for 10yrs at a time. And then have everyone complain because it filled with water and flooded their homes. In the US, the Mississippi floods every now and then. So to protect the Cities now along it's banks, they have biult a massive concrete embankment. Once in awhile it still goes over the top, but mostly, it is well contained. If Oz want to biuld in those are'as, they need to do similar. If they don't, insurance companies are going to think about it and not insure people anymore. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Regarding registration, I copied this froma post on another forum today, not that I want antone to answer his questions, but look at what happens when you start down the slippery slope This is a query for all you Australian arm chair lawyers. My cat is presently registered in Queensland at an annual cost of >$400 which entitles me to exactly NOTHING. The state government increased the fee by about 160% 2 years ago to provide more boat launching facilities. Boat ramps are of no use to me. In other states the fee is much less - Tasmania $85 and Northern territory no registration is required. I WAS THINKING - I have a nephew in Tasmania and as I live on my boat, could I transfer the rego to that state. The problems I see are that - my boat licence which is recorded on my car licence gives my old Qld address which is now rented. - how long could I sail around Qld before I would be required to have Qld registration? Would it just be a matter of heading down to NSW and returning to restart the clock? What do boats coming unregistered from the NT do in the other states? Link to post Share on other sites
Grinna 2 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 My boat's already registered .... twice ... maybe even four or five times depending on how you define registration. We've got sail numbers to identify the boat and we're registered with Yachting NZ (1). The boat is registered as a NZ ship under Schedule A with Registrar of Shipping at Maritime NZ (2) and bears a bloody great number on the topsides that confuses the hell out of many other boaties. Being a member of Coastguard we're registered with them (3) and having a 406 EPIRB the boat's details are registered in association with that as well (4). We've got a radio callsign so there's another database at Spectrum that carries our details (5). So why should I register my boat AGAIN and pay more money to somebody else? Registering boats will have about as much impact on boating fatalities as microchipping dogs has had on dog attacks .... i.e. sod all. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Who pays for all the navigation aids? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Commercial shipping pay for the Nav aids I would expect. The wharfage charges they pay probably cover it. Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 12 knots, where the hell did that figure come from. As explained to me, it is the speed of the Devonport Ferry. Most people have seen her and she travels the area of concern all the time. So if you are overtaking her, you are speeding . . . still / again 12 knots in practice means some make that 15 on their "speedo". Had the limit been 15 knots, then they would see 20 on their speedo. The limit was brought in together with a ban on autopilots to solve the problem of fast launches on autopilots having collisions, both with other boats and rocks and reefs, which had happened a few times together with many many near misses. The problem boats are often the cheque book boats. The effect is that there is only 5 minutes (I think but have not physically checked) of slow speed required if a boat is navigated from one slow speed area to another, whilst going from Stanley Point area to past the container wharf. See the speed limits on Harbourmaster's chart. Some, but knot all, ferries have speed exemptions letters on board. I suggested they should have a big sticker on the sides of the ferry, not a letter in the charttable. Exemptions include pilot boats, harbourmaster's boats, police and emergency vessels, including safety ribs when attending to the different dinghy classes. The minute the new rules came into force, I applied for exemptions for yachts when sailed short handed as lowering sails before entering marinas, setting the now "power driven vessel" to autopilot was safer than abandoning the helm to furl the sails. Over a few emails, the rules were changed so that yachts with a displacement speed of 6 knots, could use their autopilot. Hope that helps. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 But when you compare it to the Queensland area, it actually doesn't cover such a big area, compared to the share size of state is what i am meaning. "At least 75 percent of Queensland has been declared a disaster zone. " Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-1 ... state.html Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Commercial shipping pay for the Nav aids I would expect.The wharfage charges they pay probably cover it. And all commercial boats i.e. the mooring dudes and the like, do attract a Levy, which it is noted is partially to cover Nav Aids. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 ""whilst the airwaves aren't perfect imagine how much worse it would be if you could just buy a set and switch on without any form of tuition/license?"" I think we would all be shocked how many are on VHF marine and no operators certification! Yes you can just buy a set and switch on without any form of tuition/license then spend the day driving Coastguard crazy with endless "radio checks" (through a REPEATER!??) or allow the kids to jump on and do your TR for you even if its just a day down the channel or jump on the back of anothers transmission so no emergency traffic could ever get through..... need I go on!??? Lets face it, ENFORCEMENT needs to be SEEN! Watched a seaflea going out FISHING (rod and net on the back) with TWO kids and not a life jacket in sight! Yes, the F E W who do bother to take some pride in their knowledge and ability to helm a vessel correctly will pay but are we not already "PAYING"!! Rammed vessels on moorings.... being scolded when trying to poor a cupper below because a 1 metre wake suddenly appears out of no where... or the tender hitting the hull because of the same reason or fishing lines getting torn up because a boat wants to see how close thay can get to you. Hit them where it hurts, in the pocket and if necessary SEIZE the vessel. The harbour master wouldn't have known who to chase first if he was in the Tamaki Estury on new years day! (GOT THE VIDEO TO PROVE IT!) Link to post Share on other sites
rigger 47 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Send the video to the Harbour Master, might be all they need as evidence to give people a wake up call. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Post it here as well, we're nosey buggers Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Wetdream - I look out over the moorings to the South of BBYC and have seen what you describe. Most mornings that I'm walking around Pt England it surprises me how fast guys pass that part of the channel. But equally - how easy would it be for one of the harbourmaster's lads to sit on Pt England or even the lookout above the spit with a high powered lens and just ping the fuckwits. I thought the legislation was already in place for them to impose penalties. must be darn near neighbors and members of the wai o taiki bay surf club,, couldnt agree more as most heading up or down the river consider this stretch "outside the enviroment" and fang it on. consequently the wee bluff next to the island where my german shepherd loves to dive in swim and chase sticks etc from has been all but washed away and the island is dissappearing at a rapid rate, wouldnt a permanently mounted camera pay for itself in a matter of days here?? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Post it here as well, we're nosey buggers hold that thought Link to post Share on other sites
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