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1 hour ago, Zoe said:

Hi Addem, I look after this newsletter. I also have a long history going back around 20 years with Crew.org.nz (I founded it!) although I'm doing less (actually, zero) sailing these days (kids, work) and just drop in sometimes to see what's up. Firstly, the 'Clean Below?' newsletter goes widely to a list of subscribers. I promise you are only on there because you have signed up, or someone has signed you up. Maybe at a boat show?  You can definitely unsubscribe at any time - just use the link on the bottom of the email or reply to the email and we'll sort it for you. If anyone reading this would like to get the newsletters, just sign up on the website www.marinepests.nz/news 

We hope that many of you 'Crew.org.nz-ers' will come along to the webinars. Marine biosecurity is a complex field with a huge range of considerations and TON/TOS have arranged these webinars to open up discussion, build understanding on both sides, and continuously to reflect this in its stories and newsletters.. 

 

Zoe 

Hi Zoe thanks for letting us know you are the newsletter editor . 
 

The number one tool for boat owners to combat marine pests is effective  antifoul . There has been mention on clean below good to go about Selektope . Hempel paints have a Selektope containing  antifoul available offshore . I have emailed the Hempel distributor but they don’t reply . We need to get proven effective antifouls here pronto , the soft coprous oxide paints just don’t cut the mustard and aren’t great for the seafloor either . Pressure needs to be applied to whichever Govt department approves antifouls to get these emerging paints here ASAP .

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3 hours ago, Ex Machina said:

effective  antifoul .

not allowed to sell effective antifoul,go ask the greenies

Wonder what effect self polishing/ablative paints have on the oceans?

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1 hour ago, Black Panther said:

And a link to the research that proves there's a problem in the first place.

Reading between the lines, I feel that if provided with the research, you'd at the very least, declare that their conclusions were all wrong and we should just let it rip...

Many papers have been published, this is why and how an entire industry has sprung up to contain the little fuckers.  Government departments don't change their brand of toilet paper without a business case that's backed with evidence based research.

 

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53 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:

Reading between the lines, I feel that if provided with the research, you'd at the very least, declare that their conclusions were all wrong and we should just let it rip...

Many papers have been published, this is why and how an entire industry has sprung up to contain the little fuckers.  Government departments don't change their brand of toilet paper without a business case that's backed with evidence based research.

 

Most business changes are predicated by Accountants, not necessarily based on reality or what actually works. The death knell of TBT was based on its effect in Marinas (in France?) where because of the large No. of non mobile hulls (most of the time) allowed concentrations of TBT to accumulate to the detriment of the residents on the bottom. Its dispersal on moving hulls is and was negligeable in the scheme of things.

I remember being anchored at Santorini in another lifetime and seeing all the local Caique's anchored over a volcanic vent that exuded acids that definitely stopped any growth on their hulls. Anybody know of any vents (locally) we poor sailors could use.

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2 minutes ago, Steve Pope said:

Most business changes are predicated by Accountants, not necessarily based on reality or what actually works. The death knell of TBT was based on its effect in Marinas (in France?) where because of the large No. of non mobile hulls (most of the time) allowed concentrations of TBT to accumulate to the detriment of the residents on the bottom. Its dispersal on moving hulls is and was negligeable in the scheme of things.

I remember being anchored at Santorini in another lifetime and seeing all the local Caique's anchored over a volcanic vent that exuded acids that definitely stopped any growth on their hulls. Anybody know of any vents (locally) we poor sailors could use.

Sure.

And there's research on the damage fan worm causes to the marine environment.  That research has been used to inform the current controls that have been forced upon us. 

But if someone considers the research flawed/incorrect/faulty or politically motivated then providing said research has no value... 

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56 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:

Sure.

And there's research on the damage fan worm causes to the marine environment.  That research has been used to inform the current controls that have been forced upon us. 

But if someone considers the research flawed/incorrect/faulty or politically motivated then providing said research has no value... 

I think the elephant in the room is that the marine environment is the Fan worms, not ours, our interest is economic not environmental. Think mussel / oyster farming etc. (after all the "pacific " oyster arrived the same way as the fan worm, and now it is an industry! Most things that have arrived in NZ whether on the wind from Australia or by sea from the Mediterranean or by ship or on an aircraft with us They all thrive in the NZ environment.

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1 hour ago, Steve Pope said:

I think the elephant in the room is that the marine environment is the Fan worms, not ours, our interest is economic not environmental. Think mussel / oyster farming etc. (after all the "pacific " oyster arrived the same way as the fan worm, and now it is an industry! Most things that have arrived in NZ whether on the wind from Australia or by sea from the Mediterranean or by ship or on an aircraft with us They all thrive in the NZ environment.

It's both an economic and an environmental concern.  To suggest that all pest control programs in New Zealand are undertaken solely for economic benefit would be misleading.

The German wasp is being eradicated from our National Parks, at great expense, primarily to protect the environment.   Yes there is a degree of economic concern involved because tourists don't like visiting parks where they get stung.

Possums are controlled to protect the environment and reduce the spread of Tb.  Yes there's an economic concern with Possums because Tb outbreaks create a cost to our health system.

On the flip side, Great White Sharks pose a direct and measurable impact on local economies, but as they are native you won't see any government agency undertaking a control program against them.

 

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My personal opinion?

The reasons are economic and environmental. 
We don't go around scattering gorse seeds into beautiful places (or productive farms) that don't have gorse. 

Likewise we don't want to infect somewhere like the Poor Knights with fan worm (or any other pest) either unintentionally or intentionally. Most boat owners get that and are onboard with it. And so far the councils and MPI are actually doing a pretty good job of finding it quickly and squashing it where it pops up in new places. 

Fanworm is pretty nasty but it's not the worst marine pest we could have here. The Northern Pacific Seastar is one of the worst. And if we are doing a good job of protecting ourselves from fanworm, then the Seastar has a much reduced chance of getting here, and of spreading if it does get here. 

But that doesn't negate the fact that it's hard on boat owners with challenges like antifoul paints not quite working as well as they used to, infrastructure getting booked up, costs, and the like. Hence the webinars to enable a good discussion between experts. 

This Seastar video is from Melbourne. Imagine that in the Bay of Islands or the Sounds. (Info here https://www.mpi.govt.nz/biosecurity/pests-and-diseases-not-in-new-zealand/ocean-pests-and-diseases-not-in-nz/northern-pacific-seastar/ )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Ex Machina said:

Hi Zoe thanks for letting us know you are the newsletter editor . 
 

The number one tool for boat owners to combat marine pests is effective  antifoul . There has been mention on clean below good to go about Selektope . Hempel paints have a Selektope containing  antifoul available offshore . I have emailed the Hempel distributor but they don’t reply . We need to get proven effective antifouls here pronto , the soft coprous oxide paints just don’t cut the mustard and aren’t great for the seafloor either . Pressure needs to be applied to whichever Govt department approves antifouls to get these emerging paints here ASAP .

I'll see what I can find out about Selektope and if the EPA representative can address it (either generally or specifically) during the webinar. I know from speaking with some of the antifoul coating companies (not that one) that they are working to get new products to market in NZ and that we have high environmental thresholds they have to meet. 

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I think whether we talk about Blackberry, Gorse, Star fish, wasps, fan worm, possums, human beings, etc.etc. It is just nature doing what nature  has always done. Every species wants to survive, where ever there is a gap or weaker species the next one up on the ladder will take advantage. There are no bleeding hearts in nature. (Actually there are lots, those who are being eaten by a more rapacious species) NZ having been separated from any close neighbours for Eons falls into the weaker species group, there  apparently being no serious predators here until (we) mankind arrived. So much has changed / happened that we are ALL directly responsible for. So many things are from unintended consequences. Wonderful intentions! OH but I didn't think of that or it would / could happen! Bugger!  How things change, possums no longer look into car headlights, they turn their head away as they sprint for the road side. They also now avoid Tims traps.The moment I pick up a fly swat and especially a battery powered one, they go into panic mode and keep as far away from me as possible.  AH, rainy day, must be something more to do, maybe kill some snails?

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3 hours ago, Zoe said:

But that doesn't negate the fact that it's hard on boat owners with challenges like antifoul paints not quite working as well as they used to, infrastructure getting booked up,

Even worse, infrastructure getting removed!

 

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7 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

Reading between the lines, I feel that if provided with the research, you'd at the very least, declare that their conclusions were all wrong and we should just let it rip...

Many papers have been published, this is why and how an entire industry has sprung up to contain the little fuckers.  Government departments don't change their brand of toilet paper without a business case that's backed with evidence based research.

 

Then let's see it. I do have questions,  but they cannot be asked until somebody makes a statement. Many papers have been published........ falls a little short.

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6 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

Sure.

And there's research on the damage fan worm causes to the marine environment.  That research has been used to inform the current controls that have been forced upon us. 

But if someone considers the research flawed/incorrect/faulty or politically motivated then providing said research has no value... 

I'd still like to see it. Is it a secret? How would anyone know if it was flawed or incorrect ( I'm of the opinion it doesn't exist- please prove me wrong)

 

I would have thought that if they were going to sell this program and get the recreational sector on board,  then the first step in the PR program would be proof that there was a problem. Then a definition of a successful campaign.  Then some indication that what they are trying might work.

 

I actually sat through one of these webinars a while back and learned nothing. Unfortunately I was unable to ask questions at the time due to shitty cell phone reception in Whangaparaoa. 

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You are correct that there's no concrete proof of what will happen to the environment if Fan Worms are allowed to naturally evolve and grow unchecked in our waters. So, if you're seeking definitive proof of the exact consequences to us humans, you're right—it doesn't exist.

That's also a somewhat philosophical question, it's not just about us humans. We have a responsibility to protect other species from our actions.

What has been studied is how fan worms grow, spread and take homes away from organisms in our natural environment and wipe those organisms out.  They upset the natural biodiversity in our marine environment.  A friend of mine used to have a favorite dive spot in Lyttleton, always came home with a couple of Cray now the spot is overrun with Fan Worm.  You don't need the study to see the impact to the local cray population.

Let's imagine that Fan Worms are left unchecked and they deplete a nutrient required for Snapper and Kahawai to breed. Is this a good or bad thing? Well, it depends on your perspective. But for Snapper and Kahawai, it's undoubtedly a negative outcome.  What about wiping out scallop beds, good or bad for humans?

The objective of controlling the spread of Fan Worm is to maintain the current state because nobody knows for certain what would happen if they were to spread uncontrollably.

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1 hour ago, ex Elly said:

Even worse, infrastructure getting removed!

 

Part of the problem is boat owners wanting to do maintenance in a few months only (Sept-Dec) I know currently every yard in Auckland would book you in for next week if you wanted to come out

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35 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:

Fan Worms are left unchecked and they deplete a nutrient required for Snapper and Kahawai to breed. Is this a good or bad thing? Well, it depends on your perspective. But for Snapper and Kahawai, it's undoubtedly a negative outcome. 

From What niwa has posted,seem to be a water filter but can take nutrients away from oysters/mussels,no mention of fish.

 

With warmer tempertures,more shipping its only a uestion of time before more deadly pests arrive,as someone pointed out .The pacific oyster which has overtaken our rock oyster,now an industry.

 

 

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Interesting article in the Advocate re "new seaweeds " (Caulerpa Brachypus and Caulerpus Parvifolia) infestation currently found on the barrier and Gt Mercury. The article berates the government for doing little to restrict its growth, or its effective removal from NZ waters, apparently 100 tons of it washed ashore on the Barrier during Cyclone Gabrielle. The article mentions that Delaware in the US managed to rid itself of an infestation in 17 days, when? how? etc. etc. not explained. It will probably help reduce the Kina barrens, whether that is a good thing or not is yey to be seen? I wonder what will feed upon it? But I can see another industry being set up to monitor it and check our hulls etc.

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