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Caulerpa now in BOI


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So there is no evidence or data to prove any one method of spread is more or less likely than any other. The only indisputable fact is that these things spread before humans and boats were invented. Everything else is conjecture. 

It also appears the various bodies tasked with responding have no tools to deal with it and no plan nor clear goal.

IMHO we just have to wait until any new arrival inevitably spreads and they give up. Just hope they don't make life too miserable for us in the meantime. 

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4 hours ago, K4309 said:

The Auckland Council marine biosecurity expert, whom I spoke to personally for about 1/2hr on Friday, believes caulerpa was most likely introduced by the aquarium industry. So what basis or evidence do you have to say it wasn't?

Aquarium Caulerpa (Caulerpa taxifolia) has not been detected anywhere in New Zealand.

The Caulerpa at the Barrier is Caulerpa brachypus and Caulerpa parvifolia.

To suggest that someone knowingly and purposefully imported two types of Caulerpa that are not widely used in aquariums and then chose Great Barrier as a place to accidentally (or purposefully) release it, seems a like a stretch. 

It seems more likely that it reached Barrier on a boats anchor from a yet to be determined location somewhere else in NZ.  Or it came on ships.

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9 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:

Aquarium Caulerpa (Caulerpa taxifolia) has not been detected anywhere in New Zealand.

The Caulerpa at the Barrier is Caulerpa brachypus and Caulerpa parvifolia.

To suggest that someone knowingly and purposefully imported two types of Caulerpa that are not widely used in aquariums and then chose Great Barrier as a place to accidentally release it, seems a little bit far fetched.

Stranger sh*t has happened . Did you hear about the bloke that traveled nz releasing coarse fish for a lark ?  Started out wanting a coarse fishery but it got a bit sinister towards the end it seems .

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1 minute ago, Ex Machina said:

Stranger sh*t has happened . Did you hear about the bloke that traveled nz releasing coarse fish for a lark ?  Started out wanting a coarse fishery but it got a bit sinister towards the end it seems .

I did hear about that. And I am not disputing the theory is possible, rather it just seems a bit of a stretch. 

On the scale of strange, I would consider spreading fish to create a fishery less strange than establishing a useless strain of Caulerpa at the Barrier.

If some NZ resident comes forward with an eradication solution that they have been working on since before the outbreak was detected then I might consider that a little suss ;)

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39 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:

I did hear about that. And I am not disputing the theory is possible, rather it just seems a bit of a stretch. 

On the scale of strange, I would consider spreading fish to create a fishery less strange than establishing a useless strain of Caulerpa at the Barrier.

If some NZ resident comes forward with an eradication solution that they have been working on since before the outbreak was detected then I might consider that a little suss ;)

Yeah well I’ve been stockpiling cyclone ruined pvc wedding marquees and I’m on the hunt for some cheap chlorine , just need some dive gear and I’m in business 

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59 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:

 

It seems more likely that it reached Barrier on a boats anchor from a yet to be determined location somewhere else in NZ.  Or it came on ships.

Guesswork.  Plus if that were the case where is this unknown location,  must be pretty extensively infested by now, thus easy to identify. 

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1 hour ago, CarpeDiem said:

Aquarium Caulerpa (Caulerpa taxifolia) has not been detected anywhere in New Zealand.

The Caulerpa at the Barrier is Caulerpa brachypus and Caulerpa parvifolia.

To suggest that someone knowingly and purposefully imported two types of Caulerpa that are not widely used in aquariums and then chose Great Barrier as a place to accidentally (or purposefully) release it, seems a like a stretch. 

It seems more likely that it reached Barrier on a boats anchor from a yet to be determined location somewhere else in NZ.  Or it came on ships.

I'm just repeating what the expert said. For your information.

The main point being that there are alternative sources to cruising boat anchors.

Given that Caulerpa brachypus is native to Singapore, and cruising boats don't go between NZ and Singapore, it is highly likely some other vector was used.

To rule out the aquarium industry is a nonsense. It is a viable possible vector, and is the known cause of the biggest outbreak of caulerpa globally.

Now riddle me this, how is it that caulerpa apparently can't survive in open water (hence the experts discount tides and currents), but can survive on an anchor or chain for long periods of time?

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1 hour ago, Ex Machina said:

You laugh Carpediem, but this is exactly what the AC expert was talking about. Exceptionally easy to import. Put it in a bag of water, tie the top off, pop it in a box and post it. Keep in an aquarium then flush down the drain.

Have you ever heard of long-necked turtles?

I'll come back to Singapore again. Cruising yachts don't travel between Singapore and NZ.

Oil tankers do. Oil tankers go into Marsden Point. Which way does the East Auckland Current flow? From just off Fungarie directly over Great Barrier...

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5 hours ago, aardvarkash10 said:

Thanks K

1) Perhaps I misconstrued your message.  Accepted - thanks for hte clarification, and please accept an apology.

2) MPI has said it is possible / probable.  Thats not blame, its asserting a hypothesis.  It's a realistic hypothesis, as is tidal drift etc.

3) There is no hard evidence for anything about it except for its existance (and its spread through tidal movement).  It could have come from a number of sources, some more likely than others.  Thats doesn't mean boats are not the cause, nor does it mean they are the main cause - the fact is, no-one knows at this point.

4) This assumes all boaties follow the rules.  Collisions on the harbour, illegal fishing and other activities tell us this is not true in all cases.

5) He may beleive it, and it may be a plausible hypothesis.  But, just like the recreational boating as a vector hypothesis, that doesn't make it true.  

6) I will accept your word that it was.  However, we are not in the Med.  The cause and vectors MAY be different here - and potentially the variety may also be different.

7)  How many singaporean tankers park up in Tryphena?

MPI has, according to their public information, tested salt as a solution.  Its not viable give nteh size of hte spread area and hte collateral damage salt treatment leads to.  I don't have the expertise ot question any of the other methods you mention, but I do note they sound expensive!  MPI, like all govt deparmtents, is limited by its budget and hte public's appitite for tax takes.  That's just a political and operational reality.

NRC are no doubt miffed, andthey are also cash strapped.

As to whether MPI is doing a "great job" I don't know.  I don't have expertise in the control of invasive aquatic pests and therefore I am not in a position ot understand if the response is appropriate or not. In their defence, they are charged with controlling pests and threats to our ecology and our economy in a very open, very import dependant economy which has for years run a highly permissive approach ot potential risks - not just biological ones either. I do know that, like most Govt departments, they have been defunded and divested of expertise over many decades.  Thier inability (if its true) to respond appropriately would not be surprising.

This may well be a situation where your concerns of organisational (as against individual) ineptitude are well-founded.  But I just don't know.  

Cheers

All of NRC's "bottom" diving, videoing, recording etc. has been funded by MPI. (from our taxes) At least that is what we were told at their "Fanworm" seminar in Whangarei a few months ago.. Strapped for cash?? they have just built an "office" in Dargaville. $9.2 million is the cost to rate payers on top of the almost $500,000 (from the provincial growth fund) they paid for the property. This was ostensibly to house the 2 staff members who had to drive from Whangarei and back every work day. They have sublet the surplus space to the Kaipara District Council, who have now vacated their older offices, 50m up the road (that were quite sufficient) prior to the NRC doing their expansion act. This will cost Kaipara District Council ratepayers $300,000 + in rent per annum. The NRC also plans to increase their yearly rates by approximately 10% every year for the next ten years. It is their planned budgets and delusions of their own importance that is out of whack. They do it? because they can!

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3 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

I did hear about that. And I am not disputing the theory is possible, rather it just seems a bit of a stretch. 

On the scale of strange, I would consider spreading fish to create a fishery less strange than establishing a useless strain of Caulerpa at the Barrier.

If some NZ resident comes forward with an eradication solution that they have been working on since before the outbreak was detected then I might consider that a little suss ;)

Show me a canal/river in the waikato region without koi carp. They everywhere. Bloody hard to catch so have taken to dragging a old tennis net and getting plenty.They stnk as we put them through a mincer for berley.

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https://www.cruisemapper.com/ports/great-barrier-island-nz-port-5496

 

Great Barrier Island is located in outer Hauraki Gulf, New Zealand, approx 100 km (60 mi) northeast of Auckland. The Island covers a total area of 285 km2 (110 mi2), ranking it New Zealand's 6th-largest. Its highest elevation point (Mt Hobson) is 621 m (2037 ft) above sea level.

Cruise ships to Great Barrier Island dock/anchor at Tryphena - a port town on the southwestern coast.

 

So there would be a possibilty this is where it came from pre 2022?

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10 hours ago, K4309 said:

I'm just repeating what the expert said. For your information.

The main point being that there are alternative sources to cruising boat anchors.

Given that Caulerpa brachypus is native to Singapore, and cruising boats don't go between NZ and Singapore, it is highly likely some other vector was used.

To rule out the aquarium industry is a nonsense. It is a viable possible vector, and is the known cause of the biggest outbreak of caulerpa globally.

Now riddle me this, how is it that caulerpa apparently can't survive in open water (hence the experts discount tides and currents), but can survive on an anchor or chain for long periods of time?

Yeah I get that. 

And I am responding to your question "what basis do you have to say it wasn't". 

My basis is that I find it unlikely for the reasons given. 

 

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11 hours ago, K4309 said:

I'll come back to Singapore again. Cruising yachts don't travel between Singapore and NZ.

Oil tankers do. Oil tankers go into Marsden Point. Which way does the East Auckland Current flow? From just off Fungarie directly over Great Barrier...

Again, I think you are stretching.

Do cruising boats come from Australia?   What about the Pacific Islands?  What about Fiji or Norfolk Is? Do you think cruising boats come from those locations?

Whoever told you that Caulerpa brachypus and Caulerpa parvifolia are local to Singapore only, probably shouldn't be relied on for information.

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The bottom line is it's here. How it got here and where it came from is academic. 

MPI have spent 100's of thousands officially reaching the conclusion, that with the technology available today, NZ can't get rid of it and we're now in containment mode.

It's known to be easily spread on boat anchors, chains and fishing gear. This is also how it was spread in the Med. 

 

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13 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

Aquarium Caulerpa (Caulerpa taxifolia) has not been detected anywhere in New Zealand.

The Caulerpa at the Barrier is Caulerpa brachypus and Caulerpa parvifolia.

To suggest that someone knowingly and purposefully imported two types of Caulerpa that are not widely used in aquariums and then chose Great Barrier as a place to accidentally (or purposefully) release it, seems a like a stretch. 

It seems more likely that it reached Barrier on a boats anchor from a yet to be determined location somewhere else in NZ.  Or it came on ships.

Are you a bit thick?

Brachypus is used in aquariums. A quick google search will show 4 aquarium companies that sell it online. Ex Machina has already shown you a link of where to get it, which you laughed at. 

It is used to absorb phosphorous and nitrogen, to keep the water healthy. To reduce the P and N it grows rapidly and is then removed from the aquarium, as a waste product. The question is how it is disposed of. Same as long-necked turtles.

Again, all I am doing is repeating the opinion of the AC expert. This is a guy that has worked for 30 years in marine biology in the US, Hawai (and I take it many other places in between). If you think you know more than him, sure, knock yourself out.

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50 minutes ago, K4309 said:

Are you a bit thick?

Brachypus is used in aquariums. A quick google search will show 4 aquarium companies that sell it online. Ex Machina has already shown you a link of where to get it, which you laughed at. 

It is used to absorb phosphorous and nitrogen, to keep the water healthy. To reduce the P and N it grows rapidly and is then removed from the aquarium, as a waste product. The question is how it is disposed of. Same as long-necked turtles.

Again, all I am doing is repeating the opinion of the AC expert. This is a guy that has worked for 30 years in marine biology in the US, Hawai (and I take it many other places in between). If you think you know more than him, sure, knock yourself out.

I am not suggesting for a moment that your unnamed gagged experts opinion is impossible as others have pointed out strange things happen.

You asked "what basis do I have". 

And after giving you my basis you proceed to hurl abuse.

I think his opinion is unlikely for the reasons I have given. 

At no point did I say it's not used. Just not widely used. If you live on Great Barrier and are going to import an illegal aquarium plant you're probably going to import the most popular which is of course Aquarium Caulerpa. 

Snapper aren't widely seen in home Aquarium's either. But it certainly isn't unheard of. 

I am not the one claiming that these strains are only in Singapore therefore the conclusion is that a yacht could never have bought it here.

There's only one known way that this plant spreads across vast oceans and that's by physical relocation by human intervention.  The scientific literature is pretty clear on this. 

I think at this point it's best to agree to disagree.

 

 

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You happy lads obviously havent noticed the large superyachts around the barrier in the last couple of years, these boats have a number of internal raw water systems that can carry large volumes from country to country

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4 minutes ago, Guest said:

Why was the Caulerpa farm allowed to get so large? Where is our enviromental monitoring?

Because NZ has the 9th longest coastline in the world.  The rest is maths.  We simply don't have the people or the money.

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