Quattro 15 Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Very interesting article, HM didn't mention anything about the fact that our mooring fees went up several years ago by $50 pa to cover wreck recovery. Maybe 20,000 moorings x $50 what, around $1m per annum to deal with the problem? They infered that rate payers were paying for it. P!$$ED me off a bit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,313 Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Same. Also, why do they wait until a vessel has sunk? Takes lots more time and $$ then! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Frank 185 Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 This is third hand so Perhaps someone here has more correct detail but apparently one or possibly two steel boats parted their moorings in the recent blow. They were moored on the Tamaki in the vicinity of the PYBC and significant Damage to other vessels ensued with one possibly sunk, I suppose we will pay via increased insurance premiums. Harbour Masters dealing with abandoned boats is a worldwide problem affecting oceans, rivers and lakes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aardvarkash10 1,138 Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 His stat of 40% of approx 3500 vessels effectively abandoned at the mooring, and a disposal cost of $20000 each time with large steel vessels much more, a $50 annual fee increase is not going to go far. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,776 Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 If 2% of that number need disposal in one year, that's 28 boats. 20k per boat is 560,000. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aardvarkash10 1,138 Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 3500 moorings. 40% abandonment rate currently. So 1400 potential hazards to be removed somehow - sale, or removal. Sale is likely just a deferral, not a solution. Even if the HM is overstating the problem by 50% and actual abandonments are "only" 700 in number, 2% disposal rate wouldn't even keep up with the natural inflows to the problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex Elly 267 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 You can watch it here: Seven Sharp: Shipwreck City. And find out what happened to the Southern Progress, the large fishing boat that was anchored in Islington Bay for a few years. It cost $166,000 to dispose of... https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/seven-sharp/clips/shipwreck-city Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Quattro 15 Posted July 4 Author Share Posted July 4 The issue I was making was mainly in relationship to the public perception that the general city population was paying for this through rates, which is clearly not the case. I'm guessing at the number of moorings around Auckland, but it's still bringing in what, a mil per year, plus? Are they spending that annually on the problem? I think not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Murky 3 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 I don't have a dog in this fight but as well as assuming the total number of moorings in Auckland, your equation also assumes that all of the owners are keeping up-to-date with paying their annual fees. The owners that have abandoned their boats at the mooring (or a proportion of them) won't be - they've put their heads in the sand and are pretending they don't own a boat and not opening any mail/emails that look like they might relate to that fact. There's a lot of 'em everywhere, and as and when they are forced to face facts, they sell their boat to someone the same, or with even less of an idea what they're getting into. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Quattro 15 Posted July 4 Author Share Posted July 4 Other than chasing owners with a written warning to pay their fees, does HM ever do anything to collect outstanding money? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ynot 60 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 3 minutes ago, Quattro said: Other than chasing owners with a written warning to pay their fees, does HM ever do anything to collect outstanding money? Why are you asking ??....just wondering.😉 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Murky 3 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 23 minutes ago, Quattro said: Other than chasing owners with a written warning to pay their fees, does HM ever do anything to collect outstanding money? You can wheel clamp or have towed away a car that's stayed too long in a paid parking spot. You can (after following a process) evict a tenant that hasn't paid their rent. You can ..... a boat owner that hasn't paid their mooring or marina fees? (fill in the gap, I have no idea, certainly can't cut 'em loose and let them float away with the tide or you immediately create the problem you're trying to avoid Certainly not easy when the boat has little or no monetary value which is generally the case with the abandoned ones. From time to time you see boats that have been left in a boatyard with an unpaid bill being listed on Trademe. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Psyche 850 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 My mooring fee fresh in my inbox is $367- not quite sure for what exactly? Last mooring maintenance fee was 3200 which is next level for a few metres of stud link chain and a swivel but what can you do since they just send you the bill. I helped a wooden boat get crushed, took about 90 minutes, theres a truck with a hiab that gets stuck in. They sell the lead and the metal parts for scrap so its not all a lost cause. A big glass boat would be hard work though. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Psyche 850 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 47 minutes ago, Murky said: I don't have a dog in this fight but as well as assuming the total number of moorings in Auckland, your equation also assumes that all of the owners are keeping up-to-date with paying their annual fees. The owners that have abandoned their boats at the mooring (or a proportion of them) won't be - they've put their heads in the sand and are pretending they don't own a boat and not opening any mail/emails that look like they might relate to that fact. There's a lot of 'em everywhere, and as and when they are forced to face facts, they sell their boat to someone the same, or with even less of an idea what they're getting into. A lot of owners are dead or aged out, some people are at a loss at what to do with dads boat. The point is that we live in a society thats fixated on user pays but if people can't pay then they wont pay so we need to spread the load. It's not a crisis, its a 1st world problem and we have the funds to remove hulks so its just a case of political will. Just call it a green transition thing and the money will appear 🤣 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Quattro 15 Posted July 4 Author Share Posted July 4 58 minutes ago, ynot said: Why are you asking ??....just wondering.😉 My query was more about the unbalanced IMHO reporting, inferring that local council was paying for it all Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Quattro 15 Posted July 4 Author Share Posted July 4 Just now, Quattro said: My query was more about the unbalanced IMHO reporting, inferring that local council was paying for it all There was no mention of the fact that we as mooring owners were paying for the wrecks to be recovered Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aardvarkash10 1,138 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 28 minutes ago, Quattro said: There was no mention of the fact that we as mooring owners were paying for the wrecks to be recovered Mooring fees don't pay for that though. There is no part of the fee set aside for this. The fees essentially go into council's consolidated fund and then the HM is funded from that. No special jar labelled "getting rid of old shitters fund" that only gets income from mooring fees. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zozza 363 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 What about a system like Banks and FInance Companies have = you go on a bad credit report, and Debt collectors can chase you up. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Psyche 850 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 3 hours ago, aardvarkash10 said: Mooring fees don't pay for that though. There is no part of the fee set aside for this. The fees essentially go into council's consolidated fund and then the HM is funded from that. No special jar labelled "getting rid of old shitters fund" that only gets income from mooring fees. We pay for all sorts of questionable stuff like 600,000 scrap bins and the entire collection/processing chain. Someone thought it was a good idea and we are paying for it, so we can certainly remove a few boats every now and then. Alternatively we could just tow them outside the environment and sink them. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MartinRF 76 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 If you wait long enough even an old wreck can become an asset: https://www.vasamuseet.se/en /Martin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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